Terry Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would say John. 11+ average in the seventies, something Chris never managed. But Chris 2 times British champion, John 1. John started 10 years later than Chris, so more naturally gifted. Both world number 3. I don't think any father and son have been so closely matched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 11 plus average in the 70's means little when compared to the era Chris Louis rode in....there were a load of 10 plus averages in the 70's....this doesn't necessarily mean they were better riders than in Chris Louis's era....the 13 heat formula, the non fixed gate positions...I think more teams meant teams were on the whole weaker than in Chris Louis's era where there were some really solid teams ....much stronger than today and stronger than the 70's as well..... It's easy to look back at the 70's and say there were lots of mega averages so the riders were so much better....they weren't ..different era, different team strengths, different formats, no fixed gate positions.....you cannot truly compare the two eras... Having said all that.......I vote for John ! True. Normally after heat 6. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 11 plus average in the 70's means little when compared to the era Chris Louis rode in....there were a load of 10 plus averages in the 70's....this doesn't necessarily mean they were better riders than in Chris Louis's era....the 13 heat formula, the non fixed gate positions...I think more teams meant teams were on the whole weaker than in Chris Louis's era where there were some really solid teams ....much stronger than today and stronger than the 70's as well..... It's easy to look back at the 70's and say there were lots of mega averages so the riders were so much better....they weren't ..different era, different team strengths, different formats, no fixed gate positions.....you cannot truly compare the two eras... Having said all that.......I vote for John ! Good point. Even though I've gone for John, I will always be grateful to Chris for his help in making 1988 the best year of my life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I would say Chris. John relied almost solely on his gating, Chris was a more complete racer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I always thought Chris was very under rated and didn't get half the recognition he deserved tbh. Such a shame his top class career was ultimately cut short by a rogue pole (note the lower case p!) in Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I don't think any father and son have been so closely matched. Phil and Jason Crump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I never saw Chris but I was a big fan of John even before he took up speedway, watching him regularly on the Scrambles circuit. As a speedway rider he was excellent and certainly one of my favourite riders of that era. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Phil and Jason Crump.Surely there is no question which crump was better? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WembleyLion Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Having followed them very closely and both were my favourite rider for most of the time they rode I would say John but not by much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Surely there is no question which crump was better? Phil won a lot of 16 lappers as I recall. I remember early in his career Jasons leathers had 'son of the animal' emblazoned on the seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 John for me. Not by much though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I would say Chris. John relied almost solely on his gating, Chris was a more complete racer. That is such a load of B***ocks....JL was a true racer...a great team man who carried lesser riders with him...he was an Icon..a great and genuine Captain. Chris was indeed an excellent "Rider"...and was equally an icon at Foxhall...but NOBODY but NOBODY incl Siggy..Cookie..Donc..etc came within light years of JL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'd have to say john, he really stood out in those tiger leathers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I always thought Chris was very under rated and didn't get half the recognition he deserved tbh. Such a shame his top class career was ultimately cut short by a rogue pole (note the lower case p!) in Poland. I think you will find that Chris rode on after the incident with the starting pole in Poland which happened in 2001. He actually rode for Ipswich up to 2008.. The incident that finished his career was the crash at Foxhall with Sam Simota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 11 plus average in the 70's means little when compared to the era Chris Louis rode in....there were a load of 10 plus averages in the 70's....this doesn't necessarily mean they were better riders than in Chris Louis's era....the 13 heat formula, the non fixed gate positions...I think more teams meant teams were on the whole weaker than in Chris Louis's era where there were some really solid teams ....much stronger than today and stronger than the 70's as well..... It's easy to look back at the 70's and say there were lots of mega averages so the riders were so much better....they weren't ..different era, different team strengths, different formats, no fixed gate positions.....you cannot truly compare the two eras... Having said all that.......I vote for John ! Superb post. Sadly many simply don't understand the points you make here and we're beginning to see that already on the thread. I never saw John Louis ride live, only seem some footage. My gut instinct would be to rate him a tad higher than Chris as you do, but there isn't much in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma T Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think you will find that Chris rode on after the incident with the starting pole in Poland which happened in 2001. He actually rode for Ipswich up to 2008.. The incident that finished his career was the crash at Foxhall with Sam Simota. I think you will find that a crash with 'Lewis Bridger' (and nearly the infield tractor/grader to) at Foxhall ended Chris's career and The Sam Simota crash you refer to is what ended Mark Loram's a year or two earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think you will find that Chris rode on after the incident with the starting pole in Poland which happened in 2001. He actually rode for Ipswich up to 2008.. The incident that finished his career was the crash at Foxhall with Sam Simota. Oh dear, if you're going to correct someone get it right. The Simota crash ended Lorams career. And to suggest that Louis come back from the crash in Poland as good as eh was before was silly, he went for a top class performer to a fringe Team GB rider and nothing like the top guy he was before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Oh dear, if you're going to correct someone get it right. The Simota crash ended Lorams career. And to suggest that Louis come back from the crash in Poland as good as eh was before was silly, he went for a top class performer to a fringe Team GB rider and nothing like the top guy he was before. Spot on post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 A tricky one, since both reached the heights of World No 3. But looking across their whole careers, I feel John Louis just shades it, courtesy of some stunning performances in the World Team Cup and World Pairs, plus slightly greater consistency at league level (not looking at averages for the aforementioned reasons, but rather position in the final averages). All the best Rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Am I the only forum member who followed John as a Scrambles rider?. He was very active on the East of England circuit early'mid 1960's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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