Cardiff Gp

[Blazeaway]

WOULD love to see, where at all possible, some kind of 'success ballast' like the British Touring Cars (and other forms) adopt. Whether it be for gates or championship positions.

 

If for gates..

 

Once each rider has completed one ride, if a certain gate is more favourable, then an added wieght (success ballast) is added to the bike to neturalise the advantage. It could be reviewed after each 4 races with the more favourable gate getting the weight. If the stats suggest two gates are the same then split the ballast, and only when it's 25% for each gate is no ballast added. It could be removed for the semis/final just to add some twist, perhaps.

 

For championship...

 

At the start of each new GP, the top eight riders are given added weight to their bikes. So whoever is number one would get the highest amount and it cascades down accordingly, getting lighter.

 

I know it's a little out there, but it'd be great to see how the riders and mechanics adapt to the weight, the tactics considered and how over each GP the top 8 have to balance out all the factores.

 

Not sure if you're on a wind up but this is the biggest load of ballcocks I've read on here! And that takes some doing...

[waiheke1]

So the riders disadvantaged by having a rubbish gate in their first ride then get further disadvantaged by having a ballast attached when they get a favourable gate? Was that meant to make it fairer?

[nw42]

So the riders disadvantaged by having a rubbish gate in their first ride then get further disadvantaged by having a ballast attached when they get a favourable gate? Was that meant to make it fairer?

 

Good point but you're forgetting about the introduction of a multigym and sauna cubicle in each pit, so the riders will be able to drop their body weight between heats, thus rendering the ballast ineffective.

You're also overlooking the introduction of another starting grid on the back straight, so each heat will involve eight riders against the clock, things will be much fairer all round.

[Midland Red]

Why not do like F1, have pre-meeting practice, and the fastest in practice start in front of the slower riders - that will take away any gate advantage

[nw42]

Why not do like F1, have pre-meeting practice, and the fastest in practice start in front of the slower riders - that will take away any gate advantage

 

 

Now we're getting somewhere.

 

Anyway it matters not, Kelvin Tatum will do 20 flying start laps from each gate (on his engine of course), the times will then be used to assess gate positions.

[phillipsr]

Why dont we just leave it as it is and make an attempt to even out the gates (radical i know)

[RobMcCaffery]

When it is not preferable to be off gate 1, and since when is gate 3 ever any good at most tracks? I think BSI will just be happy to have a rideable track and the starting gate working.

Of course but the bias is not normally this extreme.

[g13webb]

Why is it in most SGP, the tracks, at the start of each Grand Prix are usually all 'gate and go' and 'one track only' exercise. It appears the track doesn't become racable until its had a few races run. The track at Cardiff was the best I'd seen, but we had to wait until the last batch of rides before the excitement started......and the gates weren't the most important factor...

 

Forgive me for being too obvious, but surely running a few races, as additional practise, prior to the start of the meeting would benefit everybody concerned.

 

Benefits:

 

1) It would bed the track in allowing it to become racable from the start of the meeting,

2) It would provide pre-meeting entertainment for the punters,

3) It would give riders a better insight to the state of the track, enabling the right setup from the start..

4) It would minimise the preference of gate selection, allowing a fairer distribution of points

5) It would make a better 'value for money' package of watching more races for the same cost...

6) Minimal cost to the promoters.

 

Benefits all round........,

[baldinhio]

NOT sure of the relevance of your footnote... however, believe me or believe me not, there was no BSI contact with the riders in Warsaw after the start of the meeting.

 

When the riders retreated to a room just behind the pit area on a number of occasions the only people allowed in (and I was standing outside the door - not quite with my ear on it!) were FIM officials including the Race Director, members of the Jury, Track Racing Director Armando Castagna and a representative of the PZM.

 

Eventually the three Jury members drafted an official statement confirming that the meeting had been abandoned and it was only then that BSI were informed.

Any update on Warsaw? I believe Nigel Pearson in the PL Pairs programme referenced the meeting as farcical.

 

Putting to one side the BSI investigation what is your personal opinion? Do you:

 

1. Concur with his opinion that the meeting was farcical?

2. Believe the track was suitable for racing?

3. Believe it negligent not to have a second starting gate at the venue?

[eric i]

Why is it in most SGP, the tracks, at the start of each Grand Prix are usually all 'gate and go' and 'one track only' exercise. It appears the track doesn't become racable until its had a few races run. The track at Cardiff was the best I'd seen, but we had to wait until the last batch of rides before the excitement started......and the gates weren't the most important factor...

 

Forgive me for being too obvious, but surely running a few races, as additional practise, prior to the start of the meeting would benefit everybody concerned.

 

Benefits:

 

1) It would bed the track in allowing it to become racable from the start of the meeting,

2) It would provide pre-meeting entertainment for the punters,

3) It would give riders a better insight to the state of the track, enabling the right setup from the start..

4) It would minimise the preference of gate selection, allowing a fairer distribution of points

5) It would make a better 'value for money' package of watching more races for the same cost...

6) Minimal cost to the promoters.

 

Benefits all round........,

I think the racing gets better because the dirt line moves a bit wider giving the riders a few more options. The outside line NKI took in the final would never of worked earlier on in the meeting. I am not sure its a good idea to drag so to much dirt back to inside at every grading.

[customhouseregular]

Why not do like F1, have pre-meeting practice, and the fastest in practice start in front of the slower riders - that will take away any gate advantage

Surely if the fastest riders start ahead of the others, I'm assuming you mean all 4 one behind each other, there will be little passing.

[SpecialOne]

Music was poor also this might be naff but gets the crowd going Peter Kay show me the way to Amorillow with the crowd on the air horns and Mexican waves never happened and even the bongo drums on the big screen as I say it might be naff but it gets the crowd going - Saturday was flat as a squashed hedgehog on the M25

 

Don't you find the whole Amarillow thing tedious and cringewrothy now? Was dreading that this year, glad it didn't come. Certainly doesn't pump me up.

[Starman2006]

Why is it in most SGP, the tracks, at the start of each Grand Prix are usually all 'gate and go' and 'one track only' exercise. It appears the track doesn't become racable until its had a few races run. The track at Cardiff was the best I'd seen, but we had to wait until the last batch of rides before the excitement started......and the gates weren't the most important factor...

 

Forgive me for being too obvious, but surely running a few races, as additional practise, prior to the start of the meeting would benefit everybody concerned.

 

No, because you have to put a reasonable amount of water down even on a tempary track otherwise it will just run slick and dusty. Have a look how Buster prepares your track. He should do his last run about an hour before the meeting, and on a real hot day drown it.

[PHILIPRISING]

Any update on Warsaw? I believe Nigel Pearson in the PL Pairs programme referenced the meeting as farcical.

 

Putting to one side the BSI investigation what is your personal opinion? Do you:

 

1. Concur with his opinion that the meeting was farcical?

2. Believe the track was suitable for racing?

3. Believe it negligent not to have a second starting gate at the venue?

FARCICAL is not a word I would use given that a farce is supposed to be a comedy. There was nothing humourous about that night. Disastrous is probably not too strong although what the long term effects will be only time will tell. But it was a massive blow for the Poles at their first staging of a Grand Prix at their national stadium in their capital city.

 

Was the track suitable for racing? I suppose a lot depends on your definition of racing as against rideable. It was far from ideal and far from what the riders had a right to expect. Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic could probably knock a tennis ball back and forth over the net on a far from perfect surface but wouldn't expect to do so.

 

As one who was standing in the pits that night I have always maintained that had the meeting progressed at a normal pace, without the starting gate fiasco, and going from green light starts back to the tapes and then back to the green light, the meeting may well have reached a conclusion, though undoubtedly a far from satisfactory one. But the more delays the more the disquiet amongst the riders festered until they finally dug in their heels and refused to come out again.

 

And, yes, it was negligent not to have a second starting gate, as they did at Cardiff and have done so at most temporary tracks as far as I am aware.

 

As for the BSI investigation, no doubt all parties (FIM, BSI, PZM, Speed Sport) know what went wrong so in that sense no investigation is required. What I imagine is still continuing, probably amongst various legal teams, is determining who was responsible for what. It's no good just saying that BSI are ultimately responsible as the rights holders because, presumably, you could take that one stage further and say that the World Championship is the property of the FIM.

 

And I stress that these are, you requested, on my opinions.

Edited July 13, 2015 by PHILIPRISING

[oleoleole]

If I can address this to Philip Rising.

 

I think fans deserve results of the investigation (assuming there has been one) especially those of us sat in that freezing cold stadium wondering what the hell was going on.

 

This debacle was the final straw as far as our family is concerned. Having previously endured no shows at Gothenburg, Gelsenkirchen and Riga, (all down to incompetence) and experienced BSI's insipid response to fans, this was our last SGP. No more SGP's. Not even Cardiff.

 

The shambles of Warsaw should not be allowed to be swept under the carpet.

 

This is my recent post on the Warsaw GP thread;

 

This quote is from the SGP website on 22nd April 2015 (thought I'd better add the year as this is going to be a long job!)

 

"BSI Speedway would like to further update fans following the unfortunate events of the FIM Speedway Grand Prix (SGP) in Warsaw.

 

A full investigation is underway and BSI Speedway is working with the FIM, the PZM and Speed Sport to understand all the issues that led to the curtailment of the Grand Prix. This investigation will focus on the track and the starting gate and we will update fans in due course."

 

As a disgruntled fan I am STILL waiting for an update, "in due course!".

[PHILIPRISING]

If I can address this to Philip Rising.

 

I think fans deserve results of the investigation (assuming there has been one) especially those of us sat in that freezing cold stadium wondering what the hell was going on.

 

This debacle was the final straw as far as our family is concerned. Having previously endured no shows at Gothenburg, Gelsenkirchen and Riga, (all down to incompetence) and experienced BSI's insipid response to fans, this was our last SGP. No more SGP's. Not even Cardiff.

 

The shambles of Warsaw should not be allowed to be swept under the carpet.

 

This is my recent post on the Warsaw GP thread;

 

This quote is from the SGP website on 22nd April 2015 (thought I'd better add the year as this is going to be a long job!)

 

"BSI Speedway would like to further update fans following the unfortunate events of the FIM Speedway Grand Prix (SGP) in Warsaw.

 

A full investigation is underway and BSI Speedway is working with the FIM, the PZM and Speed Sport to understand all the issues that led to the curtailment of the Grand Prix. This investigation will focus on the track and the starting gate and we will update fans in due course."

 

As a disgruntled fan I am STILL waiting for an update, "in due course!".

CANNOT really add anything to previous post.

[RPNY]

I wasn't at Gothenburg but I was in Gelsenkirchen (flew from Tokyo for that one) and Warsaw (from NY) and my father went to Riga. I was raging at the balls up made at each of these and more annoyed that no decent explanation was given. Gelsenkirchen in particular I'm still seething about.

However I try to remind myself that a handful of GP's over a 20 year period is not that awful and in real terms on par with other sports/concerts/nights out which will sometimes end up with a very unsatisfactory conclusion.

I know people on here get annoyed with temp tracks and sometimes they are right to feel that way. But I for one much prefer seeing a GP in a top class stadium in a decent city so the whole weekend is something to look forward to. Looking at the attendances at Cardiff although the die hard fans don't agree with me, many others do.

If we could have a full season of GP's at somewhere like Torun (fun city, perfect track great stadium) then yes that would be ideal. Unfortunately that isn't ever going to be the case. All we can hope is that BSI learn from their mistakes. They certainly seem to with Cardiff this year.

 

On a different note, any chance Poland looses a GP and we get Cardiff and Manchester next year??!

Edited July 13, 2015 by RPNYC

[Humphrey Appleby]

As for the BSI investigation, no doubt all parties (FIM, BSI, PZM, Speed Sport) know what went wrong so in that sense no investigation is required. What I imagine is still continuing, probably amongst various legal teams, is determining who was responsible for what. It's no good just saying that BSI are ultimately responsible as the rights holders because, presumably, you could take that one stage further and say that the World Championship is the property of the FIM.

 

Nice try, but the FIM are not the promoters of the series. I might lease my property for building, but if the developer doesn't deliver on the construction, then that's nothing to with me.

 

IMG/BSI are the promoters of the series, and either organise themselves, or contract with host organisations to run the individual GPs. I think they're morally and possibly even legally responsible for the problems, regardless of who they might have sub-contracted.

[chris4gillian]

 

Don't you find the whole Amarillow thing tedious and cringewrothy now? Was dreading that this year, glad it didn't come. Certainly doesn't pump me up.

 

It DID come and it WAS cringeworthy!

 

Oh and its 'Amarillo'

Edited July 14, 2015 by chris4gillian

[PHILIPRISING]

 

It DID come and it WAS cringeworthy!

 

Oh and its 'Amarillo'

OH. come on, it's great

 

Nice try, but the FIM are not the promoters of the series. I might lease my property for building, but if the developer doesn't deliver on the construction, then that's nothing to with me.

 

IMG/BSI are the promoters of the series, and either organise themselves, or contract with host organisations to run the individual GPs. I think they're morally and possibly even legally responsible for the problems, regardless of who they might have sub-contracted.

NO doubt that is exactly what the lawyers are trying to determine