Big Al Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Is it me, or am I noticing a continuing decline in the performance levels of riders who occupy number one race jackets? Is this real, or do statistics show otherwise? Does it apply to heat-leaders generally, or is it limited to the "top" riders only? Is it a trend which is likely to continue? What are the reasons, and what are the implications for the present and future viability of the Elite League? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) It seems to be more noticeable since the format changed. Before they would race against the whole team but now it's mainly against other heat leaders. Your highest average rider no longer has to ride a No 1 so it puts riders like Watt in that position now when before he may have been at 3 Edited May 31, 2015 by mdmc82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I dont necessarily mean literally the number one, but the guy in the team you would call its top rider/s. Agree the format has made a difference, but is it about more than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Every single EL number 1 has dropped their average this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 So are the top riders just not bothering making the extra effort because they're deciding that the returns on that effort are not worth it, and are deciding to cut down their costs? If that's the case - and we've had a lot of evidence to support that line of reasoning - we are heading more and more down the road towards a league where the number of outstanding riders is decreasing, and we have more mediocrity. Or is it better that the scoring levels of riders is becoming more similar? I know the days of three clear-cut heat leaders has long gone......but now we seem to be struggling to get any clearly defined heat leaders, or at least going in that direction. Is that bad or good? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 It would be great to see each teams line up from 1-7 with a match average each of 6.42 No EDR's or protected heats just straight 1-7 with 6.42 for each rider would have each teams total team average at 44.94. How equal is that. Why 6.42? Picking a random figure like that makes no sense. If every rider in every team had an average of 6.00 they'd all be equal, every race would be a 4 rider dead-heat, every match would end up 45-45, and they'd all finish the season on 6.00 and able to line up the same again the following year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 John if you divide 45 by 7 you get 6.428571428 per rider. This is not guessing nor a random figure. But why are you dividing 45 by 7 to produce a random figure? Your calculation makes no sense. The total team average to produce a draw is 42, and with 7 equal riders they would all have to be 6.00. 7 riders with 6.00 averages on all teams would (if they rode to their average) mean that all heats and matches finish in a draw and all riders would remain on 6.00 forever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Was under the impression that heat 15 nominated race was also included in the riders match average maybe I am wrong. All heats are included in averages, but it doesn't matter how many heats there are. There's still 6 points in a race, and to get an equal draw both teams would have a 42 average (6 x 7). Edited May 31, 2015 by John Leslie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) All heats are included in averages, but it doesn't matter how many heats there are. There's still 6 points in a race, and to get an equal draw both teams would have a 42 average (6 x 7).Quite right. It's amazing how many people seem to struggle to get their head round this apparently simple fact. Try this then John. 6 times 15 = 90 then 90 divide by 14 = 6.428571428. Scratches head. Averages are the average per ride x 4. Heat 15 gives 2 riders 5 rides, but their average is the average for every 4 rides. It's not a straight case of points scored divided by number of meetings. Edited May 31, 2015 by grachan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Try this then John. 6 times 15 = 90 then 90 divide by 14 = 6.428571428. But there are 15 heats, not 14! Why on earth are you dividing by 14? Try this:- Elite league match - 90 points divided by 15 heats = 6 Junior second half match - 36 points divided by 6 heats = 6 Old Test matches - 108 points divided by 18 heats = 6 Old League cup - 96 points divided by 16 heats = 6 Quite right. It's amazing how many people seem to struggle to get their head round this apparently simple fact. I blame the education system! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Anyway......I don't like this trend. It's another big drop in the quality of the product, in my view. Woffinden in 2014 started the trend, and it's spreading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 15 heats times 6 points per heat equals 90 divide by 14 riders ( 7 per team) = 6.428571428. You're on a wind up aren't you? You can't possibly be that thick! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 90 points in a meeting, 60 rides in a meeting 90/60 x 4 = 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Anyway......I don't like this trend. It's another big drop in the quality of the product, in my view. Woffinden in 2014 started the trend, and it's spreading. Averages are no measure of the quality of the product. However good or bad the riders are, there will always be 6 points available in every race, and teams will always end on a mean average around 42 points. The Elite league will always tend towards a 42 point average, as will the PL, as will the NL, and if 14 of us got together and took 3 minutes to complete 4 laps we'd still end up with a team average of 42. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Anyway......I don't like this trend. It's another big drop in the quality of the product, in my view. Woffinden in 2014 started the trend, and it's spreading. No it isn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with the 'quality of the product'. edited to add: As John explains above. Edited May 31, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 No not on a wind up and no thicker than anyone else on here. :rofl: :D Have a good day It's understandable misunderstanding something.. but it's been clearly explained to you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500cc Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 15 heats times 6 points per heat equals 90 divide by 14 riders ( 7 per team) = 6.428571428. Personally I'd go for 28 Heat Meetings as it would solve a lot of the woes of British Speedway. Instead of the Nominated Heat, just repeat the standard 14 heats. You get significantly more heats in an evening. And 28 heats times 6 points per heat equals 168 divide by 14 riders (7 per team) = 12.00. That gives you 14 world class (all time greats) per meeting. Perfection (literally). Surely that's the way to go !!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 How to make simple maths seem complicated!! Funny thing is I was discussing this on the dreaded 'Speedway Friends' yesterday. I wonder if the two are linked in any way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Tell me does 42 divided by 7 = 6 yes/no Tell me does 49 divided by 7 = 7 yes/no Then what does 45 divided by 7 = ?.?? your answer Await with baited breath. Don't try to explain to me that it is a mean average of 42.00 average per team. We are not riding 14 heats with 3-3 in each heat making 42-42 it is 15 heats which with each heat been 3-3 would 45-45 if nothing unto ward happens or use of a TR in any heat or the match is not abandoned after 14 heats. Please don't tell me if a rider gets 9 points from 3 rides and he as 3 trillon matches all the same points scored and same amount of rides in each match that his Match Average is 12.00. Maybe in the speedway world but in reality it would be 9.00 average. Why because that rider would not be taking 4 rides in any of the matches. So in truth it could not be a 12.00 average. Only by multiplying by 4 would make it a 12.00 average. Besides what I was trying to point out if team building averages were 45 points per team then all things been equal then each team if it were possible could each have a rider that had an average of 6.42 per rider. Won't happen I know but if teams were told you could not have a rider above 6.42 and this is without using EDR's then to make the most out of a 45 point limit each rider would have to be near as possible to 6.42. yes they could less points average per rider but that would not be anywhere near to a 45 point upper limit. Mull it over and have a think. So the answer is yes, you are on a wind up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Most definitely not you and one or two others seem to be peeing up the wrong privet to what I am saying. So you don't realise that your team of 6.42 riders would be scoring 48.2 points/match? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.