Newcastle V Sheffield League Cup Sunday 31st May 2015

[acclennell]

League Matches are already pointless. If you win the League - you can then lose it in the Play Offs to a Team finishing SIXTH!!

 

As we know to our cost........................

This team will not finish in the play offs that's the point. Crowds are dramatically down and in my opinion may well see the end of speedway at Newcastle unless something is done to correct this and with 2.5 points to play with then surely the time is now. The situation will only improve with an increase in crowds and the crowds will only come back for a team which is challenging. It's a double edged sword I realise ut again in my opinion unless there is am improvement within the team then less money is going to come into the club and ultimately no speedway. There was changes last year I realise but there is more to play with this year and the situation where two riders had to make way for one would not be a problem. Anyway it's pointless arguing about what's right or wrong only the promotion can decide what they feel is best, the rest of us can only have opinions.

[MrP]

Have to say looking on line it looks like a rather average performance against a weakened team for the second home meeting in a row. Well done Sheffield..performances will need to improve if we are to do anything in the league.[/quote

 

Last week we were the weakened team who actually rode really well to defeat Glasgow

[Tsunami]

As disappointing the crowd was last night, you have to factor in how many fans didn't go, thinking earlier that there was no chance of it being on after all the rain. I don't buy into it being a meaningless fixtures, as it was worth a go to see if our team could get a big result over a team that does not usually perform at Brough, and didn't have their best team out for various reasons. As I said in a previous post, we had some bad luck with falls especially to Kerr and Ludde, and Kerr would normally get something like 12 so that would have been a chance of making it a bit more exciting toward the end.

With the performance and good will of a depleted team performance against Glasgow last week, it could have been expected that a decent crowd would have to come to see off Sheffield. The weather ruined it and many thought it was either off or too bloody cold again.

 

Whilst there is spare points available, yes we could strengthen up adding 2.5 on anybodies average to get back to max points. Whether a suitable rider could be found is another matter, and like last year, we could be chucking the baby out with the bathwater like we did last year to Christian, who was the unlucky one. Noone(except Steve) in the team has actually performed to their full thoughout this season, and surely when most of them do, we will deliver the away wins that we need to get into the play offs. Kerr, Rose, Christian, Ludde, Anton especially are capable of bigger scores, and some have probs that are identified and being worked on(Rose's engines). I think when Kerr's stops his falling off(for both the Diamonds and the Stars), Anton gets back upto speed, and Christian sorts his clutches out, we won't have much to worry about either home of away. We have already raced against 3 of the top teams at home with 2 wins and a loss(mainly due to Masters not getting excluded) so relatively speaking we have the lesser teams to go, with the exception of Somerset.

 

What we could all do of course is make an attempt to try and bring a friend, who is not a current supporter. It is a proven fact that the newbies who come with personal recommendations, are far more likely to return than promotions and advertising. As Glyn Taylor used to say when he promoted in OZ "bring a friend to hang on to".

[acclennell]

As disappointing the crowd was last night, you have to factor in how many fans didn't go, thinking earlier that there was no chance of it being on after all the rain. I don't buy into it being a meaningless fixtures, as it was worth a go to see if our team could get a big result over a team that does not usually perform at Brough, and didn't have their best team out for various reasons. As I said in a previous post, we had some bad luck with falls especially to Kerr and Ludde, and Kerr would normally get something like 12 so that would have been a chance of making it a bit more exciting toward the end.

With the performance and good will of a depleted team performance against Glasgow last week, it could have been expected that a decent crowd would have to come to see off Sheffield. The weather ruined it and many thought it was either off or too bloody cold again.

 

Whilst there is spare points available, yes we could strengthen up adding 2.5 on anybodies average to get back to max points. Whether a suitable rider could be found is another matter, and like last year, we could be chucking the baby out with the bathwater like we did last year to Christian, who was the unlucky one. Noone(except Steve) in the team has actually performed to their full thoughout this season, and surely when most of them do, we will deliver the away wins that we need to get into the play offs. Kerr, Rose, Christian, Ludde, Anton especially are capable of bigger scores, and some have probs that are identified and being worked on(Rose's engines). I think when Kerr's stops his falling off(for both the Diamonds and the Stars), Anton gets back upto speed, and Christian sorts his clutches out, we won't have much to worry about either home of away. We have already raced against 3 of the top teams at home with 2 wins and a loss(mainly due to Masters not getting excluded) so relatively speaking we have the lesser teams to go, with the exception of Somerset.

 

What we could all do of course is make an attempt to try and bring a friend, who is not a current supporter. It is a proven fact that the newbies who come with personal recommendations, are far more likely to return than promotions and advertising. As Glyn Taylor used to say when he promoted in OZ "bring a friend to hang on to".

Here what you say Dave but I honestly think you're being way over confident on the ability of the team and in my opinion not making use of the 2.5 points is naive to possibly the point of stadium closure. As with people coming, you need to get the ones back who used to go week in and week out before you think of getting new people going. You need a team who are getting good scores to attract as in any sport and your not going to get new people going to see a team which is struggling - I for one am person who went home and away for years and would not go and watch this team so how can you attract others. One person I know who doesn't like speedway enough to go but always takes an interest in the scores as it's a Newcastle team, said to me last week "whats wrong with the Diamonds the last few year, they used to be right up there but every time I hear they seem to get beat".

 

There are fans who go no matter what just to see speedway but even that is going down judging by the amount of people even on this board who used to go every week but now don't (myself included). You need a successful and challenging team to attract supporters to speedway and again in my opinion there is no way this current team will do that. Sorry if what I say might upset some people but that's my feelings on it anyway.

Edited June 1, 2015 by acclennell

[StevePark]

So, those who want to see changes, who would you drop and who would you bring in?

[robbieblackadder fan club]

So what do you do keep going not performing every week and crowds get less and less and put speedway in jeopardy or make a change and see what happens??? Everyone goes on about changes were made last year and look what happened but they were doomed to failure once they couldn't get Branford in. I for one used to go week in week out didn't matter what the team was but now I hardly go and the look of the team at the start of the season didn't make me want to get up off my lazy backside and come and watch..how many others are like that??? You need a winning team to get crowds in that's even the case in football

[NJC71]

Not surprised it was a poor crowd for a few reasons. Firstly I don't think it was a very appealing fixture, there was never any realistic likelihood of the Diamonds scoring 60+ as they just aren't strong enough to do that at the moment. Obviously we've had a few rain offs this season so a difficult one, but running a League Cup match a month after the PL has started isn't ideal. Then there is the weather which has been awful for this time of year and it was yet again cold and windy last night. And finally both sides were using rider replacement which I honestly don't think helps. I don't know what the solution is but rider replacement is a real turn-off for me and the BSPA need to look at solutions as people want value for their money, i.e. seeing two seven man sides.

 

The meetings at Newcastle also don't tend to run quickly, not helped by the continued use of r/r. When it's poor weather the prospect of standing around for over 2 hours is another turn off. The first four heats last night took an age to complete. I really think that's something that happens too often and needs sorting out especially when it's cold. I appreciate resources are stretched and delays will occur but we really should be able to get through 15-20 1 minute races in better time.

 

As for the team, it was built to a budget which is hard to argue with. It was never a team that was likely to challenge at the top of the table and I also don't think having Rosen back will all of a sudden turn us into a top 4/6 side although it will certainly help us become more competitive. Steve Worrall has been absolutely superb, Lindgren and Nielsen have pretty much scored as expected but the others have been up and down and overall have probably not scored as well as hoped. I'm sure the promotion will be keeping their eyes open but I can't see who is available. Don't forget it needs someone who we can afford to pay (including any loan or signing fees), who is clearly better than what we have and who can commit to all of our fixtures. There's absolutely no point in suggesting riders who clearly aren't available. With Anton due back it would seem sensible to allow the team a couple of weeks to ride at full strength before considering any changes.

Edited June 1, 2015 by NJC71

[acclennell]

So, those who want to see changes, who would you drop and who would you bring in?

I don't know the finances of the club Steve so I could pick names and people will say can't afford him also being a Sunday track rules out a few riders also. Big question as to when Anton is going to actually be fit to ride if it's another month and then bearing in mind he will need a few meetings to get back up to speed then unfortunately that would be one area which would be a shame on the lad. Reserve is also a key part of the team now with potentially 6 rides per meeting so that's another area to look at. Steve has surprised me this year and hats off to the lad but I'm never confident going into heats 13 and 15 and that's something to look at also. Again in my opinion every team needs an out and out number 1 in their team who guarantees you a high % of wins in the important heats.

[StevePark]

I don't know the finances of the club Steve so I could pick names and people will say can't afford him also being a Sunday track rules out a few riders also. Big question as to when Anton is going to actually be fit to ride if it's another month and then bearing in mind he will need a few meetings to get back up to speed then unfortunately that would be one area which would be a shame on the lad. Reserve is also a key part of the team now with potentially 6 rides per meeting so that's another area to look at. Steve has surprised me this year and hats off to the lad but I'm never confident going into heats 13 and 15 and that's something to look at also. Again in my opinion every team needs an out and out number 1 in their team who guarantees you a high % of wins in the important heats.

 

All being well, Anton will return on Friday at Scunthorpe for the KOC match.

Not surprised it was a poor crowd for a few reasons. Firstly I don't think it was a very appealing fixture, there was never any realistic likelihood of the Diamonds scoring 60+ as they just aren't strong enough to do that at the moment. Obviously we've had a few rain offs this season so a difficult one, but running a League Cup match a month after the PL has started isn't ideal. Then there is the weather which has been awful for this time of year and it was yet again cold and windy last night. And finally both sides were using rider replacement which I honestly don't think helps. I don't know what the solution is but rider replacement is a real turn-off for me and the BSPA need to look at solutions as people want value for their money, i.e. seeing two seven man sides.

 

The meetings at Newcastle also don't tend to run quickly, not helped by the continued use of r/r. When it's poor weather the prospect of standing around for over 2 hours is another turn off. The first four heats last night took an age to complete. I really think that's something that happens too often and needs sorting out especially when it's cold. I appreciate resources are stretched and delays will occur but we really should be able to get through 15-20 1 minute races in better time.

 

As for the team, it was built to a budget which is hard to argue with. It was never a team that was likely to challenge at the top of the table and I also don't think having Rosen back will all of a sudden turn us into a top 4/6 side although it will certainly help us become more competitive. Steve Worrall has been absolutely superb, Lindgren and Nielsen have pretty much scored as expected but the others have been up and down and overall have probably not scored as well as hoped. I'm sure the promotion will be keeping their eyes open but I can't see who is available. Don't forget it needs someone who we can afford to pay (including any loan or signing fees), who is clearly better than what we have and who can commit to all of our fixtures. There's absolutely no point in suggesting riders who clearly aren't available. With Anton due back it would seem sensible to allow the team a couple of weeks to ride at full strength before considering any changes.

 

That's pretty much a spot on post.

[acclennell]

 

All being well, Anton will return on Friday at Scunthorpe for the KOC match.

 

That's pretty much a spot on post.

As I said Steve it just my opinion we need to change to try and get the crowds back up but I totally respect everyone has theirs also :-)

Edited June 1, 2015 by acclennell

[The White Knight]

Here what you say Dave but I honestly think you're being way over confident on the ability of the team and in my opinion not making use of the 2.5 points is naive to possibly the point of stadium closure. As with people coming, you need to get the ones back who used to go week in and week out before you think of getting new people going. You need a team who are getting good scores to attract as in any sport and your not going to get new people going to see a team which is struggling - I for one am person who went home and away for years and would not go and watch this team so how can you attract others. One person I know who doesn't like speedway enough to go but always takes an interest in the scores as it's a Newcastle team, said to me last week "whats wrong with the Diamonds the last few year, they used to be right up there but every time I hear they seem to get beat".

 

There are fans who go no matter what just to see speedway but even that is going down judging by the amount of people even on this board who used to go every week but now don't (myself included). You need a successful and challenging team to attract supporters to speedway and again in my opinion there is no way this current team will do that. Sorry if what I say might upset some people but that's my feelings on it anyway.

What if you cannot afford to invest the amount of capital to achieve the performance/success level you are talking about. These days there are no guarantees that folk will come - even for a successful Team - though I do admit that you have a better chance.

 

Give up - or - go bust - it has to be one or the other. Would you put your money in to the Promotion because I wouldn't. Credit should be given to those who do. We are going through some very tough times at present and I suspect that the austerity 'cuts' made by Government has affected our Fanbase. No amount of investment will bring people in if they cannot afford to go.

 

I think that the Newcastle Promoters are right to build and maintain a Side that they can afford - any other way would lead to disaster.

Edited June 1, 2015 by The White Knight

[acclennell]

What if you cannot afford to invest the amount of capital to achieve the performance/success level you are talking about. These days there are no guarantees that folk will come - even for a successful Team - though I do admit that you have a better chance.

 

Give up - or - go bust - it has to be one or the other. Would you put your money in to the Promotion because I wouldn't. Credit should be given to those who do. We are going through some very tough times at present and I suspect that the austerity 'cuts' made by Government has affected our Fanbase. No amount of investment will bring people in if they cannot afford to go.

 

I think that the Newcastle Promoters are right to build and maintain a Side that they can afford - any other way would lead to disaster.

Woah hold your horses I'm giving an opinion (which I'm entitled to) and certainly don't need a lecture off you.If you don't like it tough!

[ruffdiamond]

So, those who want to see changes, who would you drop and who would you bring in?

I would trim one end of the boomerang, then throw the kitchen sink at the evil twin ;-)

[HadrianDog]

So, those who want to see changes, who would you drop and who would you bring in?

It would seem that Rosen's injury is more long term than first thought {according to terrace rumours} If this is the case could we take someone on a months contract as cover with a view to an extension if he proved successful. The mention earlier of getting Henry to reserve somehow also sounds appealing. As to rider availability, that is the big question. Surely an EL rider out there fancies learning a technical track for a few weeks or more if he clicked. I stress that I think it would be most unfair on Rosen if he was dropped again. Dropping Nielsen to bring in a six /seven pointer seems a good shout imo.

So what do you do keep going not performing every week and crowds get less and less and put speedway in jeopardy or make a change and see what happens??? Everyone goes on about changes were made last year and look what happened but they were doomed to failure once they couldn't get Branford in. I for one used to go week in week out didn't matter what the team was but now I hardly go and the look of the team at the start of the season didn't make me want to get up off my lazy backside and come and watch..how many others are like that??? You need a winning team to get crowds in that's even the case in football

You mean Lambert surely? We would have 'rocked' to be sure with him and King.

[Tsunami]

Not surprised it was a poor crowd for a few reasons. Firstly I don't think it was a very appealing fixture, there was never any realistic likelihood of the Diamonds scoring 60+ as they just aren't strong enough to do that at the moment. Obviously we've had a few rain offs this season so a difficult one, but running a League Cup match a month after the PL has started isn't ideal. Then there is the weather which has been awful for this time of year and it was yet again cold and windy last night. And finally both sides were using rider replacement which I honestly don't think helps. I don't know what the solution is but rider replacement is a real turn-off for me and the BSPA need to look at solutions as people want value for their money, i.e. seeing two seven man sides.

 

The meetings at Newcastle also don't tend to run quickly, not helped by the continued use of r/r. When it's poor weather the prospect of standing around for over 2 hours is another turn off. The first four heats last night took an age to complete. I really think that's something that happens too often and needs sorting out especially when it's cold. I appreciate resources are stretched and delays will occur but we really should be able to get through 15-20 1 minute races in better time.

 

As for the team, it was built to a budget which is hard to argue with. It was never a team that was likely to challenge at the top of the table and I also don't think having Rosen back will all of a sudden turn us into a top 4/6 side although it will certainly help us become more competitive. Steve Worrall has been absolutely superb, Lindgren and Nielsen have pretty much scored as expected but the others have been up and down and overall have probably not scored as well as hoped. I'm sure the promotion will be keeping their eyes open but I can't see who is available. Don't forget it needs someone who we can afford to pay (including any loan or signing fees), who is clearly better than what we have and who can commit to all of our fixtures. There's absolutely no point in suggesting riders who clearly aren't available. With Anton due back it would seem sensible to allow the team a couple of weeks to ride at full strength before considering any changes.

Once the early heats were over, Graham Flint the referee, really knocked on with the 2 minutes, and we had an early night. The 'we' I refer to is the track staff who finished and left the stadium at 9.30 whereas it is usually nearer 10.00.

[HadrianDog]

I would trim one end of the boomerang, then throw the kitchen sink at the evil twin ;-)

Noticeable that Henry seems to have only the one bike {shoestring budget?} Is he our balance the books rider who comes cheap to make the numbers fit? If so, he is unlikely to be dropped. As to luring Richie away from a potentially multi cup/medal winning Somerset team- that is cloud cuckoo land time. Unless of course you are privy to secret knowledge known to only the inner sanctum of Diamonds management?

[ruffdiamond]

Once the early heats were over, Graham Flint the referee, really knocked on with the 2 minutes, and we had an early night. The 'we' I refer to is the track staff who finished and left the stadium at 9.30 whereas it is usually nearer 10.00.

yeah, I think he got on with it pretty quick and got the meeting over with ok,,, someone should maybe sort the starting gate out before the start, it seems to be problematic till its warmed up, av got an old tin of 3 in 1 if that would help,,, it's nice to get an early finish, but on the downside, wor lass was still up, making her demands :-(

 

Noticeable that Henry seems to have only the one bike {shoestring budget?} Is he our balance the books rider who comes cheap to make the numbers fit? If so, he is unlikely to be dropped. As to luring Richie away from a potentially multi cup/medal winning Somerset team- that is cloud cuckoo land time. Unless of course you are privy to secret knowledge known to only the inner sanctum of Diamonds management?

 

Didn't know they had one of them,,,

[PaulS]

Given that Christian WAS dropped last year, I would think he's not the main reason the books balance.

 

IMO Lewis R and Christian are the only fit riders who have under-performed overall do far this season. Great to see their recent improvement because I thought this team, in particular Lewis R, could all add to their averages this season. Perhaps Lewis R can indeed now start to clean up at reserve. Christian is a solid performer who can bring heat wins as well as points and is well worth sticking with.

 

Rosen - promising rider injured (again) when getting into the groove.

 

Worrall - absolutely sensational.

 

Lindgren and Kerr - both obviously nailed-on in the team, good bets at home who can have a crack away as well.

 

Nielsen - reliable reserve scoring the points for us, wants to ride for the Diamonds, evidently fits into the budget...why sack a reserve who's doing their job well...?

 

I don't think we need team changes, we simply need to see all 7 of the riders actually turn out and then see if we can nab 6th place.

[cyclone]

I’ve noticed the trend on several threads that when a side are having a less than successful season, results wise, out come the doom and gloom merchants predicting that attendances will dwindle and the club will shortly close down.

 

If this were to be the case universally, then any club finishing bottom of the pile would cease to exist and league speedway would eventually run out of clubs.

 

For me, the main attraction is exciting racing, slickly presented in a professional fashion, then hopefully, followed by my own team being good to watch and reasonably successful.

 

I recognise that there are some customers whose main reason for attending is to win all the time (aka glory hunters), so they will disappear when the going gets tough.

 

My own side have previously finished bottom of the table, so I know the feeling.

 

I remember when Cradley Heath had poor sides in the 60’s/early 70’s, but because the racing at Dudley Wood was good to watch, they still had one of the largest home attendances of any club.

 

IMO this prolonged spell of cold and wet weather is the major factor causing decreasing numbers coming through the turnstiles.

 

I have visited Brough Park many times since 1968 and reckon the current racing is actually more exciting than previously, and I wish that George English & Co. continue to prosper there.

[ruffdiamond]

Very good post 'Cyclone',,, apart from last season, and 2011 with injuries to Rene Bach, Mark Lemon and the Matej Ferjan tragedy, Newcastle have won something and been up there in the league in recent seasons, you can't really expect to win everything all the time,,, but obviously, some do :-(,,, because of the nature of the sport, your team can be depleted so quickly and it's not as if you can 'buy' a squad that is guaranteed to win,,,

'Doom and gloomers' are good, moaning all the time, as long as their not taken seriously, lol,,,

Britain if famous for these types, so we can't really do much about it ;-)