DutchGrasstrack Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Yes, but does Poland have a trillion league matches per league? Don't think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Yes, but does Poland have a trillion league matches per league? Don't think so No- however it is a trend-probably for TV purposes. Denmark are also now running Monday, Wednesday and Friday`s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) You have no clue.... the FIM and FIM Europe meetings have existed for years and provide the riders extra valuable experience as well. And can riders make a living out of these meetings? All very well for part-time riders who largely ride for fun, but not so great if you're trying to make ends meet running teams that actually have to pay proper wages to their riders. Â It's not simply about Britain either. I can't imagine it's ideal for riders to be doing meetings on Saturdays and then driving overnight to ride in Polish league matches, quite aside from the additional injury risk to riders who ride in Poland and Sweden. Â I find it astonishing and outrageous that the sports so-called governing body is willing to sanction these competitions willy-nilly without any sort of consideration or recompense to the professional leagues. The World U21 does not need to be a GP series, you don't need to have parallel World and Euro GP series, quite aside all the other duplicate pairs and U21 competitions that seem to have proliferated over the past few years. Â One Sport is stepping in and taking speedway league to the next level. How so? Running mickey mouse pairs events in backwater venues, and filling Torun with 7.5k fans. Even BSI manages to do better than that. Edited June 22, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Am I right in thinking that the " world cup 250 " mentioned by One sport is the U 16 youth comp ?? I think so.The FIM have been trying to move this onto a new level and drop the 80cc YGT.It seems even Denmark are moving very slowly towards 250.Not sure but is Porsing setting himself up as a 250 dealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 So private companies are free to organise this championship and that in prime weekend slots, and the leagues actually paying the salaries have to play second fiddle? If the BSPA had any foresight they could have bought the rights for the GPs, EUs and U21s themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandonbee48 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 No- however it is a trend-probably for TV purposes. Denmark are also now running Monday, Wednesday and Friday`s. But sadly dear old Kanal Sport are not. If the BSPA had any foresight they could have bought the rights for the GPs, EUs and U21s themselves. BSPA./ Foresight. The ultimate oxymoron. Even beats military intelligence. Regards. Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Â And can riders make a living out of these meetings? All very well for part-time riders who largely ride for fun, but not so great if you're trying to make ends meet running teams that actually have to pay proper wages to their riders. Â It's not simply about Britain either. I can't imagine it's ideal for riders to be doing meetings on Saturdays and then driving overnight to ride in Polish league matches, quite aside from the additional injury risk to riders who ride in Poland and Sweden. Â I find it astonishing and outrageous that the sports so-called governing body is willing to sanction these competitions willy-nilly without any sort of consideration or recompense to the professional leagues. The World U21 does not need to be a GP series, you don't need to have parallel World and Euro GP series, quite aside all the other duplicate pairs and U21 competitions that seem to have proliferated over the past few years. Â Â How so? Running mickey mouse pairs events in backwater venues, and filling Torun with 7.5k fans. Even BSI manages to do better than that. Â I like your posts, however for a long time people have been saying British speedway needs to adjust to win back elite riders and spectators. But nothing seems to change. With every initiative on the continent British speedway appears more insular and isolated. Â I checked the EL table 22/6 and Coventry on top have completed 17 matches; Swindon only 11. Rescheduled matches, rider replacement, guesting, on loan, doubling up, visa problems, and just clinging to TV sponsorship. I know promoters and riders need to make money, but it can be a job to follow the British leagues. Â Surely riders/promoters can make money participating in these other European series. I know us Antipodeans don't get much say in things, but isn't the opportunity there for British speedway to embrace these series. Or is it that One Sport don't want to involve British speedway. Â At least they are trying and whoever makes the money, speedway is getting good exposure. They provide good racing. The U21 and juniors can have riders from Australia, US, and Britain as well, so why not? It would be great to see some of these meetings at British tracks. The FIM represent all national speedway authorities, don't they. That last comment - a little tongue in cheek. Edited June 23, 2015 by Ozrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 If the BSPA had any foresight they could have bought the rights for the GPs, EUs and U21s themselves. Why should they have been forced to buy something they effectively already owned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Why should they have been forced to buy something they effectively already owned? Why don't they run the series then? Edited June 23, 2015 by Ozrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Surely riders/promoters can make money participating in these other European series. I know us Antipodeans don't get much say in things, but isn't the opportunity there for British speedway to embrace these series. Or is it that One Sport don't want to involve British speedway. I'm sure OneSport would love British riders to be involved, but just when are they supposed to ride for British teams? The problems with British speedway are many and are well documented, but the BSPA for better or worse are trying to run a regular weekly programme of speedway meetings that allow a significant number of riders to make some sort of living from the sport. It's all very well saying they can do that five days a week and leave the weekends for all these made-up competitions, but the fact of the matter remains that weekend racing (with the odd exception) is preferential from a spectator point of perspective. Â The modern era of European Championships (as opposed to the FIM-run European Championships that were the forerunner of World Championships) were created by what's now FIM Europe in order to justify his existence, when it was set-up a few years ago in Italy. A member of its track commission told me at the time that it was just to create jobs for people. Since then, the SEC has gained traction thanks to something of a power struggle between different factions within speedway, using the FIM and FIM Europe as their proxies. The Poles in particular, worked out that the FIM and BSI are profiting from the sport without much benefit to Poland, so decided to get in on the action. Â The Euros are primarily aimed at giving occasional tracks (i.e. those that hold a handful of meetings) around Europe some meetings of apparent significance. The prize money is generally poor, but sticking a 'Euro' title on it gives the illusion of more meaning than a series of open meetings, and part-time riders are probably happy enough to get a few euros to defray their expenses. Â I very much doubt though, that anyone could make a living out of Euro and World Championship meetings, quite aside from the fact that you can be eliminated in the first round of some of them. And whilst British riders might gain some experience from riding different types of Continental European tracks, I'd have thought regular competitive weekly speedway is of more benefit. Â I like your posts, however for a long time people have been saying British speedway needs to adjust to win back elite riders and spectators. But nothing seems to change. With every initiative on the continent British speedway appears more insular and isolated. I'm not sure how having a plethora of international competitions, or indeed British participation in them, is likely to win back elite riders. Not that Britain can afford the elite riders anyway, but even if it manages to run with its own home-grown riders, having them disappear off to the Continent every weekend for some Euro/World meeting is not very conducive to running a coherent league programme. Â It's not about being insular, but about British tracks trying to survive financially. Â I've no particular problem with the World Championships in speedway, but allowing a proliferation of rounds and duplicate competitions, and even worse having them compete with each other for resources, is ultimately not good for the sport anywhere in Europe. Why don't they run the series then? Lack of vision, lack of investment, lack of talent... Â The major professional leagues should have got together years ago to run the SGP, even if it meant hiring a professional management company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I think so.The FIM have been trying to move this onto a new level and drop the 80cc YGT.It seems even Denmark are moving very slowly towards 250.Not sure but is Porsing setting himself up as a 250 dealer The killing of 85cc has been going on for years now. Main reasons for its survival has been the strong position it's having in Denmark and Sweden. Now from the start of 2016 the YGT age limit is dropped to 15 in the top end and 250cc has been U17 for years. Also what I hear, is that the availibility of these 250cc engines is very limited. Thats just hearsay from people that have tried to get one. Â With FIM 85cc going to be ages 12-15 and 250cc being 13-17 its gonna effectively cut the number of riders in half in 85cc. It can happen on the world scale, but like over here IMO it's better to stick with 85cc as we have bikes and tracks and a running operation. Trying to split it will kill them both and in the current situation that speedway is in over here, it would not get back up. Actually told this to CCP and look what they did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 85cc championship is now down to 2 semi finals and a final as well (instead of 3 qualifiers, 2 semis and a final). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 85cc championship is now down to 2 semi finals and a final as well (instead of 3 qualifiers, 2 semis and a final). And they (organizers) are atleast 2 riders short for even those two semi's. Someone has pulled out again. And they (organizers) are atleast 2 riders short for even those two semi's. Someone has pulled out again. 36 places requested, 32 given and not even that is filled. I guess it's happening for real... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 36 places given according to the line-ups. Quite a wierd heat schedule I guess. Â http://www.fim-live.com/en/library/download/54799/no_cache/1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I'm sure OneSport would love British riders to be involved, but just when are they supposed to ride for British teams? The problems with British speedway are many and are well documented, but the BSPA for better or worse are trying to run a regular weekly programme of speedway meetings that allow a significant number of riders to make some sort of living from the sport. It's all very well saying they can do that five days a week and leave the weekends for all these made-up competitions, but the fact of the matter remains that weekend racing (with the odd exception) is preferential from a spectator point of perspective. Â The modern era of European Championships (as opposed to the FIM-run European Championships that were the forerunner of World Championships) were created by what's now FIM Europe in order to justify his existence, when it was set-up a few years ago in Italy. A member of its track commission told me at the time that it was just to create jobs for people. Since then, the SEC has gained traction thanks to something of a power struggle between different factions within speedway, using the FIM and FIM Europe as their proxies. The Poles in particular, worked out that the FIM and BSI are profiting from the sport without much benefit to Poland, so decided to get in on the action. Â The Euros are primarily aimed at giving occasional tracks (i.e. those that hold a handful of meetings) around Europe some meetings of apparent significance. The prize money is generally poor, but sticking a 'Euro' title on it gives the illusion of more meaning than a series of open meetings, and part-time riders are probably happy enough to get a few euros to defray their expenses. Â I very much doubt though, that anyone could make a living out of Euro and World Championship meetings, quite aside from the fact that you can be eliminated in the first round of some of them. And whilst British riders might gain some experience from riding different types of Continental European tracks, I'd have thought regular competitive weekly speedway is of more benefit. Â Â I'm not sure how having a plethora of international competitions, or indeed British participation in them, is likely to win back elite riders. Not that Britain can afford the elite riders anyway, but even if it manages to run with its own home-grown riders, having them disappear off to the Continent every weekend for some Euro/World meeting is not very conducive to running a coherent league programme. Â It's not about being insular, but about British tracks trying to survive financially. Â I've no particular problem with the World Championships in speedway, but allowing a proliferation of rounds and duplicate competitions, and even worse having them compete with each other for resources, is ultimately not good for the sport anywhere in Europe. Â Lack of vision, lack of investment, lack of talent... Â The major professional leagues should have got together years ago to run the SGP, even if it meant hiring a professional management company. Â Excellent response. Thanks HA. Just so frustrating to see us debating the same issues, whilst progression in the sport seems hog tied by all the in fighting and self interest. Obviously there is a lot going on that ordinary punters (like myself), are not privy to. Â Do know one thing. It will not be good if all these series are controlled and dominated by Poland and Euro riders. Â Non European riders will not get the same opportunities to ride in Europe if GB doesn't thrive. In any class. Edited June 23, 2015 by Ozrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 85cc championship is now down to 2 semi finals and a final as well (instead of 3 qualifiers, 2 semis and a final). Not only that it seems the 4tt nations meeting has also been dropped.Used to be a great week of youth speedway from Thursday through to sunday.Now I might pop up for the semi-finals and give the final a miss,instead of going up 4 days in a row...... The killing of 85cc has been going on for years now. Main reasons for its survival has been the strong position it's having in Denmark and Sweden Think we have been reporting this for years also.Remember asking Gundersen and he said Denmark would stick to what they have as it has shown to have its rewards.Good to see a couple of young Australian riders back.Think the last I saw were Brady Kurtz etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Not only that it seems the 4tt nations meeting has also been dropped.Used to be a great week of youth speedway from Thursday through to sunday.Now I might pop up for the semi-finals and give the final a miss,instead of going up 4 days in a row...... That 4tt is exactly that, just a glorified open meeting... LOL But as has been the case, it "appears" during the meeting... Last time the 85cc YGT was in Denmark, it was ridden at a different track. They just invite who's there on practise/semi day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 That 4tt is exactly that, just a glorified open meeting... LOL But as has been the case, it "appears" during the meeting... Last time the 85cc YGT was in Denmark, it was ridden at a different track. They just invite who's there on practise/semi day. I know.I have been to one ya know When Kasper Lykke Nielsen turned out for Poland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I know.I have been to one ya know When Kasper Lykke Nielsen turned out for Poland And speaking of Denmark, I spoke with Gundersen last summer. They have 130ish 85cc 12-16 years and the same in 50cc microspeedway 5-11. They can afford to "lose" a few to 250cc. We have 10+1. We cant. Edited June 23, 2015 by f-s-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 The series kicks of next weekend on the 11th of July in Lonigo (Italy). The two wildcards have gone to local boys Nicolas Vincentin and Michele Paco Castagna. Â Lineup: Â 1. Bartosz Zmarzlik2. Mikkel Michelsen3. Viktor Kulakov4. Brady Kurtz5. Nicolas Vicentin (wildcard)6. Nicolaj B. Jacobsen7. Stefan Nielsen8. Pawel Przedpelski9. Aleksander Loktaev10. Mikkel Bech11. Andzejs Lebedevs12. Michele Paco Castagna (wildcard)13. Emil Grondal14. Max Fricke15. Victor Palovaara16. Anders Thomsen--17. Giorgio Trentin18. Ivan Garzaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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