Promotion / Relegation

[weatherwatcher]

As Humphrey has just stated above, even in th early 90's when most of the top stars where still over here and Sky and just started puuting on Sky Sports, they crowd levels where still going down. When Sky come into town now, they must be hard put to on what angle to point the cameras so that they don't let people see the 400 or 500 people there at some of the tracks.

It really needs a radical shake up, not sure what the answer is, but to be honest people have moved on over the years and life has so many more things on offer. How many people in the early 90's went paint balling, hang glidding etc,etc. The list could go on. In the 40's and 50's there was not a great deal other than football, to keep the folks amused, all they had was a radio to sit down and listen to. So with speedway clubs galore, most of them on their door step that was a good night out for them. Sadly not now. I very much doubt, if half the population of this country even know sppedway is even happening.

[SCB]

What the Premier League is not doing is charging Supporters Premier League Prices to watch National League Racing in some Heats.

 

I never mentioned the Premier League in my Post. This is the trouble - I didn't want this to become an inter League discussion - but - some people won't have it any other way. :sad:

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to such lies but here goes.

Names me one, just a single EL rider who is riding in the NL this season.

Where as the PL has Branford, Clegg, Chapman, Morley, Greenwood, Greaves and did have Perks until he was dropped.

 

 

 

whats the answer then SCB - plough on and hope for the best?

I don't know exactly. But I do think, despite TWKs incorrect claims, the draft is one of the better things to come out of the EL in recent seasons. All British reserves, smoe of them have come on leaps and bounds too. But what is the PL doing to fix the decline? Nothing as I see it. They are all charging £1 less than the EL too - the same EL that when it proposed dropping prices last season to allow for the draft had PL promoters crying they could not do that as it would make the PL look expensive!

 

What do you mean - weakening the Elite League. Has the Elite League itself not done that already, by employing National League Riders as a penny pinching measure.

 

Add in the Premier League 'Double Uppers' and there is not much Elite left in the Elite League.

And the PL has not been weakening? And again, you persist with that lie about NL riders in the EL. It's funny though, as we're constantly told PL and NL is better so surely more NL riders is a good thing?

 

As for "Premier League double uppers" - there are far more EL riders doubling up than there are PL riders doubling up.

[The White Knight]

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to such lies but here goes.

Names me one, just a single EL rider who is riding in the NL this season.

Where as the PL has Branford, Clegg, Chapman, Morley, Greenwood, Greaves and did have Perks until he was dropped.

 

I don't understand your statement - I have never said Elite League Riders ride in the National League, however, National League Rider DO ride in the Elite League thus undeniably watering down the Elite League Product. THAT is fact to anybody but you - not lies.

 

 

I don't know exactly. But I do think, despite TWKs incorrect claims, the draft is one of the better things to come out of the EL in recent seasons. All British reserves, smoe of them have come on leaps and bounds too. But what is the PL doing to fix the decline? Nothing as I see it. They are all charging £1 less than the EL too - the same EL that when it proposed dropping prices last season to allow for the draft had PL promoters crying they could not do that as it would make the PL look expensive!

 

There you go - lying again. I deal in FACTS not lies. Would that you did the same.

 

And the PL has not been weakening? And again, you persist with that lie about NL riders in the EL. It's funny though, as we're constantly told PL and NL is better so surely more NL riders is a good thing?

 

Are you telling me there are no National League Riders in the Elite League?

 

As for "Premier League double uppers" - there are far more EL riders doubling up than there are PL riders doubling up.

 

I can't see your logic here. Where are these 'Elite League' Riders Doubling up to?

[SCB]

 

 

Are you telling me there are no National League Riders in the Elite League?

 

Yes I am. Check the EL teams on the BSPA site. There is not a single NL rider in the EL.

 

 

 

 

I can't see your logic here. Where are these 'Elite League' Riders Doubling up to?

The Premier League.

Edited May 27, 2015 by SCB

[The White Knight]

 

 

Are you telling me there are no National League Riders in the Elite League?"

 

Yes I am. Check the EL teams on the BSPA site. There is not a single NL rider in the EL.

What about the rest of my Post?

[ch958]

NL STANDARD riders in the EL perhaps

[SCB]

NL STANDARD riders in the EL perhaps

Again, go on then....

 

I'll name the NL rider as he's not yet been named. Adam Ellis.

Edited May 27, 2015 by SCB

[BWitcher]

It really is staggering the mentality of a few PL supporters.

 

For starters, I would never want to be labelled as PL or EL supporter.. I'm a speedway supporter and tire of seeing the constant sniping that comes consistently from certain PL fans.

 

 

The first snipe they have is attacking the Elite League name.. even though the name is 100% correct. Yes, 100%, not even a debate. It is the highest league in the UK and is therefore the Elite.

 

The incorrectly named league is the Premier League. Again, that's 100% and not even a debate.

 

The next ridiculous snipe they make is the prices that Elite League charges due to the extortionate wages of top riders... again oblivious to the fact that some PL teams charge as much as Poole! So the 'extortionate prices' are in the PL. Not even a debate.

 

Finally the constant snipe about the 'low standard' of the Elite League.. which again, the posters who make it are completely oblivious to the fact that however low the standard of the EL is, the PL is lower so in effect they are abusing their own league.

[moxey63]

Like BWitcher, my affair with speedway is for the sport as a whole, not one particular team, which is Belle Vue, because I am closest to that track.

 

I want what is best for the sport. It annoys me that it is all over the place right now, just cobbled together it seems. I could watch an Ipswich match verses ANOTHER in place of a Belle Vue match. My attraction is wide ranging.

 

You start off supporting your local team, then the rest of the sport just drags you along and you become embroiled in the fabric an dhistory of the sport.

 

But I went slightly off topic.

 

What I'm trying to say... is... we are really all friends with something in common , that just tend to insult each other.

Edited May 27, 2015 by moxey63

[Ozrik]

Whats wrong with eight teams in EL. Seems to work in Poland, Sweden and Denmark. Those leagues run less league matches than UK. Maybe a reduced schedule would work in EL. Run more open meetings, get stronger riders involved that way.

[BWitcher]

Like BWitcher, my affair with speedway is for the sport as a whole, not one particular team, which is Belle Vue, because I am closest to that track.

 

I want what is best for the sport. It annoys me that it is all over the place right now, just cobbled together it seems. I could watch an Ipswich match verses ANOTHER in place of a Bell Vue match. My attraction is wide ranging.

 

The last two Sky meetings have shown that with just a little bit of imagination and a bit of promotion the sport can be great!

 

The racing in both of those meetings was decent. It was not amazing racing, far from it, but it SEEMED much better because there was a big crowd and a vibrant atmosphere.

 

Present this product each week on TV and slowly but surely more and more people will start to make their way to tracks.

 

It really is SO SIMPLE yet after 15 years of tv coverage they still haven't grasped it (perhaps they will now).

 

 

One of these meetings was PL.. one was EL.. so the league made no difference.

 

One thing I do note is, with the PL meeting, EL posters were quick to post that they enjoyed it... not so on the EL meeting, the PL whingers were nowhere to be seen... yet if a poor EL Meeting is shown they are all over it like a rash.

[ch958]

PL fan here - i loved last night

[The White Knight]

PL fan here - i loved last night

So did I actually.

[spin king]

It really is staggering the mentality of a few PL supporters.

 

For starters, I would never want to be labelled as PL or EL supporter.. I'm a speedway supporter and tire of seeing the constant sniping that comes consistently from certain PL fans.

 

 

The first snipe they have is attacking the Elite League name.. even though the name is 100% correct. Yes, 100%, not even a debate. It is the highest league in the UK and is therefore the Elite.

 

The incorrectly named league is the Premier League. Again, that's 100% and not even a debate.

 

The next ridiculous snipe they make is the prices that Elite League charges due to the extortionate wages of top riders... again oblivious to the fact that some PL teams charge as much as Poole! So the 'extortionate prices' are in the PL. Not even a debate.

 

Finally the constant snipe about the 'low standard' of the Elite League.. which again, the posters who make it are completely oblivious to the fact that however low the standard of the EL is, the PL is lower so in effect they are abusing their own league.

Of course the standard of the Elite League is better than the Premier League, but I think that the main point is over the last 4 to 5 seasons the gap in standard has narrowed rapidly to the point where they not that far from been level in standard.

 

I too love the sport and enjoy watching team racing at all levels, but for me I much prefer the Premier League where there are far more variation different competitions than there is in Elite League.

[orion]

Of course the standard of the Elite League is better than the Premier League, but I think that the main point is over the last 4 to 5 seasons the gap in standard has narrowed rapidly to the point where they not that far from been level in standard.

 

 

There is massive gap most El teams at full strength would still beat most pl teams by 15 to 20 points .

[SCB]

Of course the standard of the Elite League is better than the Premier League, but I think that the main point is over the last 4 to 5 seasons the gap in standard has narrowed rapidly to the point where they not that far from been level in standard.

The gap is still massive. Lets take Leicester, worst team in the EL. Their 5th rider (Masters) is, with and without bonus points the PL #2 to Stead. So they have 5 riders who would blitz anything the PL has to offer. Then they have Auty who is 8 point PL rider, so is better than all but Edinburgh and Somersets 2nd heat leader so again, they'd not get much out of him.

 

Actually take any PL team and any EL team and match every rider up against ever other rider on the team. You get 49 comparisons, I bet the EL teams win 35+ of them every simple time. There not a PL team that would beat an EL team.

[spin king]

There is massive gap most El teams at full strength would still beat most pl teams by 15 to 20 points .

You could not stage a meeting like that anymore.

 

For instance last night Nick Morris rode at number 1 for Swindon.

 

The next meeting at Sheffield is against Glasgow whose number 1 is?

 

Nick Morris.

 

Its not too long ago the only doubling up riders in the Elite League were those who shared a reserve berth.

 

The standard is narrowing.

The gap is still massive. Lets take Leicester, worst team in the EL. Their 5th rider (Masters) is, with and without bonus points the PL #2 to Stead. So they have 5 riders who would blitz anything the PL has to offer. Then they have Auty who is 8 point PL rider, so is better than all but Edinburgh and Somersets 2nd heat leader so again, they'd not get much out of him.

 

Actually take any PL team and any EL team and match every rider up against ever other rider on the team. You get 49 comparisons, I bet the EL teams win 35+ of them every simple time. There not a PL team that would beat an EL team.

 

Totally missing the point, trying to pit a full strength Elite League team against a full strength Premier League would be virtually impossible due to over used doubling up rule.

 

For instance of the 14 riders on show at the Swindon v Coventry meeting last night I can see 8 of those riders riding in the Premier League.

 

And looking at it of those 4 Swindon and 4 Coventry the two top scorers from each are riders that I can see in Premier League.

 

Not so many years ago the only doubling up allowed was two riders sharing one doubling up position.

[Daniel Smith]

I'm an EL team fan & I seriously miss the PL.

 

The rider's at that level seem far more appreciative of the paying fan. It's their bread and butter.

 

The rider's that flit around Europe come in, earn pocket money (to them) then go again not really paying any attention to any of us that spend our dough.

 

You even see it with rider's that double up / down, the best camaraderie is with their fellow PL rider's / fans.

 

I don't really care much about the cost difference from EL - PL, local fans that travel to King's Lynn, Ipswich & Peterborough tend to feel they get better value for money from the PL by purely the racing alone.

 

It doesn't matter a jot who lines up in the 1-7, it matters what's happening on the shale and I can confidently say the racing was better at PL level at King's Lynn even when we battered teams 60-30.

 

I'd also guess Ipswich and Peterborough fans may feel similar in not really feeling the need to return to the EL??

 

I'd be well happy if we bumped down a level again. I'm actually fed up with unappreciative "Super Stars".

[orion]

 

 

Totally missing the point, trying to pit a full strength Elite League team against a full strength Premier League would be virtually impossible due to over used doubling up rule.

 

 

Virtually impossible you could make up tons of match up's between El v Pl that not be affected by doubling up rules .or riders . Swindon for example could take on every team in the pl bar 4 for a start so hardly impossible .

[BWitcher]

I'm an EL team fan & I seriously miss the PL.

 

The rider's at that level seem far more appreciative of the paying fan. It's their bread and butter.

 

The rider's that flit around Europe come in, earn pocket money (to them) then go again not really paying any attention to any of us that spend our dough.

 

You even see it with rider's that double up / down, the best camaraderie is with their fellow PL rider's / fans.

 

I don't really care much about the cost difference from EL - PL, local fans that travel to King's Lynn, Ipswich & Peterborough tend to feel they get better value for money from the PL by purely the racing alone.

 

It doesn't matter a jot who lines up in the 1-7, it matters what's happening on the shale and I can confidently say the racing was better at PL level at King's Lynn even when we battered teams 60-30.

 

I'd also guess Ipswich and Peterborough fans may feel similar in not really feeling the need to return to the EL??

 

I'd be well happy if we bumped down a level again. I'm actually fed up with unappreciative "Super Stars".

 

Ah we're back to the old myths again.

 

I do wonder why Premier League teams aren't packing stadiums out.....