Humphrey Appleby Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) But surely if the books are balanced and those running the team can afford it, the fans should want to see their team competing at the highest level? I think the point is that you can't balance the books at EL level, and the model of fan-promoters constantly underwriting the losses has led speedway to where it is today. However, speedway does have to be one of the few sports where fans have no aspirations of being in the top flight, and indeed claim that the second tier is better to the top tier. Edited May 27, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think the point is that you can't balance the books at EL level, and the model of fan-promoters constantly underwriting the losses has led speedway to where it is today. However, speedway does have to be one of the few sports where fans have no aspirations of being in the top flight, and indeed claim that the second tier is better to the top tier. But if the promoters have decided to go EL, they must have some plans and must think it's possible. Why then are fans moaning about going Elite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 But if the promoters have decided to go EL, they must have some plans and must think it's possible. Why then are fans moaning about going Elite? perhaps its not what they want because NL/PL is a better product in their view to which they are fully entitled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Do attendances go up if a speedway team moves up a league, in my experience they don't but interesting to hear what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 perhaps its not what they want because NL/PL is a better product in their view to which they are fully entitled So to confirm, if rumours are true that Kent/Sittingbourne are to go Elite (which is the starting point of this thread) you think they don't want to for EL because they think the NL/PL is better? So why are they, if rumours are true, going EL then? Gun to their head? Threats of violence on their children? Do attendances go up if a speedway team moves up a league, in my experience they don't but interesting to hear what others think. No. Because most promoters fail to promote the fact they're in the top league. How many do you think sold the fact they had a World Champion their last season? Bet it was never mentioned. The name "Tai Woffinden" meant nothing to most people, "The World Champion" now that means something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 no i think some of the fans think NL/PL is better in some respects. I'm sure the promoters know what they're doing. My own opinion is that EL is a dead duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Stummings Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 The top league in the UK is the PL and not EL. There are so many riders doubling up into the EL and only a splash of world class riders, that’s the only real difference in my view. Sure it would be £18ish plus programme, that's £20ish and a lot of people struggle finically, as indeed Stummo does! I personally don’t see what the draw of EL racing is. Same teams week in week out. All the world class riders elbow the UK, Sky don’t sponsor the EL so when they show a televised match they get little reward. The only reason Birmingham went up was the Sky purse and looks what’s happened to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 The top league in the UK is the PL and not EL. There are so many riders doubling up into the EL and only a splash of world class riders, that’s the only real difference in my view. Sure it would be £18ish plus programme, that's £20ish and a lot of people struggle finically, as indeed Stummo does! I personally don’t see what the draw of EL racing is. Same teams week in week out. All the world class riders elbow the UK, Sky don’t sponsor the EL so when they show a televised match they get little reward. The only reason Birmingham went up was the Sky purse and looks what’s happened to them! Difficult to argue with any of that apart from the fact that not all of the World's top class Riders have "elbowed' the Elite League. I totally agree with everything else though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 The top league in the UK is the PL and not EL. There are so many riders doubling up into the EL and only a splash of world class riders, that’s the only real difference in my view. Sure it would be £18ish plus programme, that's £20ish and a lot of people struggle finically, as indeed Stummo does! I personally don’t see what the draw of EL racing is. Same teams week in week out. All the world class riders elbow the UK, Sky don’t sponsor the EL so when they show a televised match they get little reward. The only reason Birmingham went up was the Sky purse and looks what’s happened to them! The Elite League has so many flaws these days but there is still no way the Premier League is the top league.....entertaining maybe but definitely not in terms of rider quality......of course rider quality doesn't always equate to entertainment but in terms of quality the Elite League is still superior by far than the Premier League. Of course teams have to make the decision of whether the sheer increased costs of paying EL riders will bring enough extra people through the gate to justify the move up from PL......I think that years ago it would have been a reasobably easy decision...the top league had every world star in it, there were plenty of teams so much more variety of opposition to see, riders didn't ride in all the leagues so they seemed to be available more often and teams definitely didn't have 4 guests in a meeting very often....there was less attractions outside speedway as well but the top league product had a lot to attract fans over the second division.....I'm not sure it's the same now even though the rider quality itself is still higher I'm not sure the extra expense justifies the risk of teams moving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 The Elite League has so many flaws these days but there is still no way the Premier League is the top league.....entertaining maybe but definitely not in terms of rider quality......of course rider quality doesn't always equate to entertainment but in terms of quality the Elite League is still superior by far than the Premier League. Of course teams have to make the decision of whether the sheer increased costs of paying EL riders will bring enough extra people through the gate to justify the move up from PL......I think that years ago it would have been a reasobably easy decision...the top league had every world star in it, there were plenty of teams so much more variety of opposition to see, riders didn't ride in all the leagues so they seemed to be available more often and teams definitely didn't have 4 guests in a meeting very often....there was less attractions outside speedway as well but the top league product had a lot to attract fans over the second division.....I'm not sure it's the same now even though the rider quality itself is still higher I'm not sure the extra expense justifies the risk of teams moving up. But surely that is the crux of the issue. Speedway is supposed to be an Entertainment, so if the Premier League is more entertaining, then that is surely the place to be. Personally I would rather see a decent Race than a World 'Star' beating a Premier League Rider by a half a Lap in the Elite League. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Moving up to the EL was a disaster for Birmingham (twice - same in 1976) so Kent would be very ill-advised to repeat this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Moving up to the EL was a disaster for Birmingham (twice - same in 1976) so Kent would be very ill-advised to repeat this. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Rye house v coventry last Saturday cost me £11 including prog, excellent value for money. I must say I'm really enjoying the addition of the raiders and eastbourne to the NL this season. Good honest local speedway at a reasonable price, which ticks all the boxes for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I get how to the people running the club the books have to be balanced, it's a business as well as a sport. That's fine, thats sensible and it's the right way to go, the last thing we need is clubs plunged into a financial mess because of some ego-maniac wanting to compete at the highest level (be it speedway, or a Leed United in football). But surely if the books are balanced and those running the team can afford it, the fans should want to see their team competing at the highest level? Are you really telling me is Kent announced tomorrow they were signing Mark Loram that the people of Kent would go, "nah, don't want to see him. He's too good"? People want to see the best, people want to be the best, surely? Or just what is the point. I should point out as well the "muppet" part of my post was aimed at a few people specifically on the TV - it's not really relevant on here so hopefully nobody has taken offence to it! Mark Loram was an excellent rider but to me, at least, the racing is more entertaining overall when the riders are all closer in standard. Personally over the years I have found the PL to be the most entertaining league. I have to say I have not been to sittingbourne so I cant comment on the quality of the racing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 But surely that is the crux of the issue. Speedway is supposed to be an Entertainment, so if the Premier League is more entertaining, then that is surely the place to be. Personally I would rather see a decent Race than a World 'Star' beating a Premier League Rider by a half a Lap in the Elite League. Just my opinion. Not really...I would say that in football this season the Championship has been far more entertaining than the Premier League but nobody would ever claim that its actually the top league in football.... I would still much rather see the world stars of speedway ride and always have done...going back to when I went to Ellesmere Port on Friday nights and Belle Vue on Saturday nights...the entetainment at Ellesmere was great and I appreciated John Jackson and Steve Finch scoring their maximums but I always much preferred seeing the stars the following night , even if the entertainment wasn't always as good even back then.....I still feel the same and would definitely prefer to watch the world stars live any day of the week even though the Rlite League is a mere shadow now of its past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Not really...I would say that in football this season the Championship has been far more entertaining than the Premier League but nobody would ever claim that its actually the top league in football.... I'm sure that most Championship fans want their team to play in the Premiership though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Same old EL v PL arguments but as usual people ignore the facts that the PL generally has the better racetracks, the price difference is so little nowadays and that many riders double down rather than up. The main issue the EL has is the one of missing riders, it seems to get worse every year and needs to be addressed (squads) so that we aren't subjected to random guests and R/R every week. Letting Lord Ford go by his own personal rulebook doesn't help matters either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tyrrell Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Friday night Elite League speedway? This was killed years ago, along with Saturdays, when the Grand Prix stared. So Sittingborne might elect for that - another promotion lured into Circus Speedway with a team one week and loads of guests the next throughout the season due to international commitments. 'Circus Speedway' - the term used when 'top' riders belong to two or three teams throughout Europe and breeze into town to ride for 'their' team once a week. (As an aside, I wonder how Kings Lynn supporters feel that Rory Schlein was injured riding for a Polish club? Bad enough that he is injured at all, lets hope he gets well soon, but 'your' rider riding for someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Friday night Elite League speedway? This was killed years ago, along with Saturdays, when the Grand Prix stared. So Sittingborne might elect for that - another promotion lured into Circus Speedway with a team one week and loads of guests the next throughout the season due to international commitments. 'Circus Speedway' - the term used when 'top' riders belong to two or three teams throughout Europe and breeze into town to ride for 'their' team once a week. (As an aside, I wonder how Kings Lynn supporters feel that Rory Schlein was injured riding for a Polish club? Bad enough that he is injured at all, lets hope he gets well soon, but 'your' rider riding for someone else? or when Lasse Bjerre pulledout of the Rye House v Redcar meeting dur to injury then rode at Wolves later the same day ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Friday night Elite League speedway? This was killed years ago, along with Saturdays, when the Grand Prix stared. So Sittingborne might elect for that - another promotion lured into Circus Speedway with a team one week and loads of guests the next throughout the season due to international commitments. 'Circus Speedway' - the term used when 'top' riders belong to two or three teams throughout Europe and breeze into town to ride for 'their' team once a week. (As an aside, I wonder how Kings Lynn supporters feel that Rory Schlein was injured riding for a Polish club? Bad enough that he is injured at all, lets hope he gets well soon, but 'your' rider riding for someone else? Whilst I agree with you in your comments, I would also like to point out that his Polish Team Supporters would feel exactly the same had the dreadful accident happened in this Country at Kings Lynn. Edited May 28, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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