SCB Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Do we still have many riders that are over boring engines these days, would have thought with all the titanium bits and bobs and other costly add on's that those days where long gone. In this modern era, of electronics, I can't see why the riders still have to remove the cover to advance or retard the points. Is it just that the powers above can't get around to the fact, that things have gone a very long way from the days when riders where using JAP rudge and various other past museum pieces. I really think they could make life within the speedway world so much simpler. Isn't the easier way to get a bigger engine to use long and short stroke bits interchangeably? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I'm more surprised that after all those years spent so close to Speedway riders of several generations, right up to date. Philip Rising doesn't seem to understand their mindset on an issue like this even one iota. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Make sure piston is 'bottom dead centre', take the spark plug out, get a jug of water and fill the hole,,, tip the bike upside down and collect the water into an 'empty' measuring jug, and see what the volume is,,, if it's more than it should be, you've got em ;-) Nope . no you havent . because the volume of the cylinder head has nothing to do with actual swept volume ,, the on ly way to check is to remove the head and measure the bore and stroke .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 How slow is it down the straights lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Gerhard engine has a very comprehensive oiling system which helps out with its longevity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Make sure piston is 'bottom dead centre', take the spark plug out, get a jug of water and fill the hole,,, tip the bike upside down and collect the water into an 'empty' measuring jug, and see what the volume is,,, if it's more than it should be, you've got em ;-) Thank you RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Harris would have been better on Ivor the engine tonight!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Thank you RD. What are you saying thanks for ?, he just quoted you a complete load of nonsense . no one would be daft enough to fill an engine with water for a start , and even if they did , it would give completely innacurate measurement .. there is only 1 way to accurately measure an engines capacity , and that is to remove the head and measure the bore and stroke . If you believe someone is using an oversize engine , you have to pay £150 protest fee to have it checked . the engine will then be sealed by the machine examiners and the rider has a limited time to present it fortesting , it will have the head removed and bore and stroke measured , also occasionally a random engine will be chosen for measurement . same thing seals are applied and the engine taken for testing , not filled up with water and tipped upside down to empty it !!!!! , taken apart and measured . if the engine is not oversize the rider is compensated £80 to cover the cost of a rebuild .. no water is used whatsoever during this measuring process , and only someone with virtually no mechanical knowledge ,but who think they have,, would suggest it Isn't the easier way to get a bigger engine to use long and short stroke bits interchangeably? something like that , long stroke conrod short stroke piston , but you nee extra gaskets to make the extra length up or the piston hits the head , so effectively you have created an overbored long stroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 What are you saying thanks for ?, he just quoted you a complete load of nonsense . no one would be daft enough to fill an engine with water for a start , and even if they did , it would give completely innacurate measurement .. there is only 1 way to accurately measure an engines capacity , and that is to remove the head and measure the bore and stroke . If you believe someone is using an oversize engine , you have to pay £150 protest fee to have it checked . the engine will then be sealed by the machine examiners and the rider has a limited time to present it fortesting , it will have the head removed and bore and stroke measured , also occasionally a random engine will be chosen for measurement . same thing seals are applied and the engine taken for testing , not filled up with water and tipped upside down to empty it !!!!! , taken apart and measured . if the engine is not oversize the rider is compensated £80 to cover the cost of a rebuild .. no water is used whatsoever during this measuring process , and only someone with virtually no mechanical knowledge ,but who think they have,, would suggest it something like that , long stroke conrod short stroke piston , but you nee extra gaskets to make the extra length up or the piston hits the head , so effectively you have created an overbored long stroke He didn't ask how to do it acurrately, he asked how to find out ;-) If you don't wanna use water, another things you could do is,,, get an old spark plug, bore it out, just like coring an apple ;-),,, fit a balloon to it and, with the engine in the same position BDC (bottom dead centre),,, fit the spark plug and do 1 revolution of the engine,,, the balloon will take the air from the barrel,,, size your balloon against a factory set balloon, and there ye go,,, no need for expensive engine rebuilds :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 He didn't ask how to do it acurrately, he asked how to find out ;-) If you don't wanna use water, another things you could do is,,, get an old spark plug, bore it out, just like coring an apple ;-),,, fit a balloon to it and, with the engine in the same position BDC (bottom dead centre),,, fit the spark plug and do 1 revolution of the engine,,, the balloon will take the air from the barrel,,, size your balloon against a factory set balloon, and there ye go,,, no need for expensive engine rebuilds :-) To find out what ? if the engine might be somewhere within 25 CC of the allowed 500 .? I have heard of a much simpler method and equally as accurate as your suggestions , simply get a factory measured ant that Is 1 cc then remove the plug . count out 501 ants and if they all manage to walk in through the spark plug hole ,hey presto " you got em" oversize engine . just put a damp sugar lump on the top fin and they will all walk out again no damage to the engine and no expensive rebuilds . just the cost of an official Briggo sugar lump 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah, but how do you entice the first ant in, do you just tell it that's there's a 'Briggo' lump inside, or get some sugar flavour spray and give it a little squirt first to trick them, haha ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah, but how do you entice the first ant in, do you just tell it that's there's a 'Briggo' lump inside, or get some sugar flavour spray and give it a little squirt first to trick them, haha ;-) do you know what RD , i hadn't thought of that... Bugger !! bit like you not thinking about the exhaust valves still being open for one third of the pistons ascendance so the air would go out of there instead of inflating a balloon , or the fact that any air that went into the balloon would need to compress to create the pressure to inflate the balloon, maybe better to scrap the Ant idea anyway because there would no doubt be problem with animal cruelty . perhaps just stick to the tried and tested way ( and In my highly unqualified opinion ) only way of measuring, by removing the head and measuring the bore and stroke . but please do post some more suggestions because I am enjoying reading them , a lot more than watching a 2 Ronnies sketch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Oh, forgot about the valves, put the balloon on the exhaust outlet and leave the sparkplug in,,, but use a knackered sparkplug, cos you don't want to engine firing up, cos it might burst the balloon, or at least melt it (so wear gloves !!!),,, p's,,, the guy did state that he wasn't very technical, so coming up with all these idea's, might be pushing him a bit too far ;-) Edited June 12, 2015 by ruffdiamond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Oh, forgot about the valves, put the balloon on the exhaust outlet and leave the sparkplug in,,, but use a knackered sparkplug, cos you don't want to engine firing up, cos it might burst the balloon, or at least melt it (so wear gloves !!!),,, p's,,, the guy did state that he wasn't very technical, so coming up with all these idea's, might be pushing him a bit too far ;-) definitely not pushing him too far . people who are of advancing years as TWK is . need to keep their brain active . and I'm sure reading through these last few posts sorting out the fact from fantasy , and practical from humor will do just that so rather than confusing him we are doing him a favour 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) The best way to measure the engine is to remove the spark plug and get an off-duty policeman to fill the hole wih neat vodka. If the engine is the right size you should still have a third of a 75cl bottle left. Then put a straw in the spark plug hole and send for Darcy Ward. The engine will be completely emptied with no rebuild cost. p.s. Don't leave the empty vodka bottle lying around unless you want Darcy to attempt to measure some other hole. Edited June 12, 2015 by John Leslie 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 The best way to measure the engine is to remove the spark plug and get an off-duty policeman to fill the hole wih neat vodka. If the engine is the right size you should still have a third of a 75cl bottle left. Then put a straw in the spark plug hole and send for Darcy Ward. The engine will be completely emptied with no rebuild cost. arr come on,,, your just being silly now, vodka isn't cheap :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunArisen Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) The individual at the heart of Suter-Estech is Eskil Suter a Swiss national. A name well known to road racing fans. Very searchable on the internet. Successful as a builder / manufacturer. Before that a racer but not especially distinguished. Edited June 12, 2015 by SunArisen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 What are you saying thanks for ?, he just quoted you a complete load of nonsense . no one would be daft enough to fill an engine with water for a start , and even if they did , it would give completely innacurate measurement .. there is only 1 way to accurately measure an engines capacity , and that is to remove the head and measure the bore and stroke . If you believe someone is using an oversize engine , you have to pay £150 protest fee to have it checked . the engine will then be sealed by the machine examiners and the rider has a limited time to present it fortesting , it will have the head removed and bore and stroke measured , also occasionally a random engine will be chosen for measurement . same thing seals are applied and the engine taken for testing , not filled up with water and tipped upside down to empty it !!!!! , taken apart and measured . if the engine is not oversize the rider is compensated £80 to cover the cost of a rebuild .. no water is used whatsoever during this measuring process , and only someone with virtually no mechanical knowledge ,but who think they have,, would suggest it something like that , long stroke conrod short stroke piston , but you nee extra gaskets to make the extra length up or the piston hits the head , so effectively you have created an overbored long stroke Because that is the right thing to do when someone has attempted to help you out with some information right or wrong., which RD did in good faith. It is called manners - or it was in my day. Thank you for your explanation too by the way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Because that is the right thing to do when someone has attempted to help you out with some information right or wrong., which RD did in good faith. It is called manners - or it was in my day. Thank you for your explanation too by the way. I did like the group 'Bad Manners' TWK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I did like the group 'Bad Manners' TWK! Oye,,, 'lip up fatty' ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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