weatherwatcher Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 That is why so many young riders struggle to stay riding speedway, thier parents help them out when younger and the early tean years, when they have to find all the money on top of running a house and family, the sport tacks a back seat. It is getting far to costly, with the add on nuts bolts washers and tuning, so if the Gerhard engine is left alone as it comes from the factory, then the PL and NL can run an engine for all season with no tune up's no extra bits to by, as long as they all run on the same standard setup, then you get a much fairer meeting, with the winner being the rider who has the most knowladge and know how to ride the track, not the rider who has the most money to spend to get the faster engine, by spending silly amounts with the guys who tune the bikes. Lets get back to what the sport was all about an affordable way to have fun riding a bike. That was until the big boys came onto the scene and started over developing an engine that is now at the point of blowing its self to small pieces of shrapnel. If they want to do this in the GP's then let them, but let the grass root riders get along with an engine that is well designed and comes from the factory, in a full racing condition, that will run longer than the other engines on the market, with less down time. So why play about with them to get an extra ten penneth out of them. Leave them alone and race them as they are and the same should go for all the other engines too. Lets make a sport a level playing field, with riders being able to affords to race and enjoy the sport, not beak thier bank accounts just trying to be the fastest rider around the tracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 6k £ for an engine in mid PL is overpaying. http://www.speedwaysanomat.fi/galleria/2015/2015_smliiga4/ Was at Hyvinkää yesterday, Timo Lahti was riding the new German engine. Said it was good, won all foyr heats when on it. Shame he had to borrow a bike agains Davey Watt-Kauko Nieminen. A few pics early on in the linked gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 For someone so close to the Sport Phil is either towing the Party line or really hasn't got much understanding of modern ruthless Speedway, PL middle order Riders are paying £6k for an engine, and £700 for a service after 25 races, and that's fact not fiction £6000 for a engine! Or do you mean £6000 for a engine that's smashed to the eyeballs? That's $12,000 over here in Aussie. You can buy a brand new complete bike for that, ready to go. Me thinks your engine tuners want to retire really early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 not sure if anyone can see my facebook from here but I put a picture of the Gerhard engine on earlier >> https://www.facebook.com/steve.hone.9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I can't, I'm not on F.B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) my picture here if anyone is interested >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_womble/18496636750/in/dateposted-public/ Edited June 10, 2015 by stevehone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Who is producing the German engine. Another completely different looking design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Who is going to supply the parts / service these engines when the time comes? If they all have to go back to Gerhard it would be a hell of a waiting time? Mid / lower tier riders still need to find the outlay in the first place. If these engines are circa £5000 and most clubs expect you to turn up with two bikes that's a hell of an outlay especially considering you can pick up a new or nearly new GM/JAWA for £2500..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 my picture here if anyone is interested >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_womble/18496636750/in/dateposted-public/ That's better, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Ben Barker and Sam Simota currently using prototype new JRM the two engines are different, the BB one actually built in Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I KNOW that. But if the GTR doesn't require servicing for at least 100, maybe 200, races then the savings are quite astronomical. Is that what he is claiming ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Not every dropped point is down to an opponent net having a 'faster' engine. We all know that,but try telling a rider......at least most of the time when they are interviewed they seem to blame the bike if not the track.Was a rider just a few weeks back who won his first two heats,got a last in the next and then done well in his last two.Of course for some reason he decided to change something on his bike in the third heat whch was why he finished last and then got it going again.Now why on earth after two heat wins he decided to chnge things and then came last only he knows,but that is how riders seem to operate.So if someone is known to have tuned up one of these and goes well then most will feel pressured into doing to same,even if it is only that little devil sitting on their shoulder that is putting the pressure on them.Stands to reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) BUT that will be up to the rider(s) concerned. If they want to spend additional money in the belief it will be better so be it. Chris Harris told me on Monday that Jarek Hampel sent his engines back to his tuner after just two meetings, 10 heats. But on the evidence of what he rode that night Chris said would be happy to run with that. If a rider believes that a GTR performs as well as a GM without additional tuning and servicing and can save him a significant sum of money over the course of a season then surely it has to be a viable proposition. This is why we never get anywhere with costs . of course it's not up to the riders you fool . once one rider sponsored by a tuner ,turns up with a modified Gerhard , then all the others will have to spend money to keep up . and the whole cost cutting exercise is out the window .. Durrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Edited June 11, 2015 by speedibee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 German grasstrack sidecar racer Imanuel Schramm will also use a GTR engine this saturday at the Euro sidecar semi final in Loppersum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 German grasstrack sidecar racer Imanuel Schramm will also use a GTR engine this saturday at the Euro sidecar semi final in Loppersum. He has been one of the main testers and been giving his feedback to Gerhard,according to the speedweek article I linked to earlier in this thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Potter 2 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 All that is needed is to ban rider's & tuner's from fitting none standard engine parts. They can only use part's supplied by the engine manufactures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Liked what I saw of the rides by Bomber, must say though it seemed to lack quite a bit in straight line speed. That could have been down to the gearing and not the engine though. It was good off the start and if Bomber can get it to go from the tapes, then it must be good. I really can't see how it can be leagle. You could have said the same about the GM's when they started to replace the Jawa's. But noone knows for sure, unless they have seen one in pieces, what is actually going on inside the engine. All I have ever seen are pictures of the outside of the engine, there are no scematics of it. Come to think of it neither are there any for the Jawa's and GM's come to think about it. What made them come up with the very chuncky looking barrel, it just looks like an unfinished block of aluminium but it works very well for all that. But on the inside it is no more that a crank and a piston. With a bore of 500cc like all the others. Would love to know, what they have done to make the big difference to the other engines. This is an interesting Thread. I have a query, as I am not very technical. Can anyone explain how you can find out if a Rider is on a 'big' Engine these days? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bream Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Waiting to see pics inside GTR engine. Head looks wide so it must be DOHC. Problem with older DOHC engines was roller chain that wasnt very durable. Just a little streching on it messed the optimum performance that was possible to get out of the double cam engineering. I bet that under that valve cover there is tooth chain like in modern double cam motocross engine that can go for hours and hours with the same chain. Second thing to get more hours out of speedway engine would be an oil injection nozzle built in the engine case pointing upwards to oil the cylinder every time piston is in the TDC. Same type of nozzle would be nice to oil valve train components at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 This is an interesting Thread. I have a query, as I am not very technical. Can anyone explain how you can find out if a Rider is on a 'big' Engine these days? Make sure piston is 'bottom dead centre', take the spark plug out, get a jug of water and fill the hole,,, tip the bike upside down and collect the water into an 'empty' measuring jug, and see what the volume is,,, if it's more than it should be, you've got em ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Do we still have many riders that are over boring engines these days, would have thought with all the titanium bits and bobs and other costly add on's that those days where long gone. In this modern era, of electronics, I can't see why the riders still have to remove the cover to advance or retard the points. Is it just that the powers above can't get around to the fact, that things have gone a very long way from the days when riders where using JAP rudge and various other past museum pieces. I really think they could make life within the speedway world so much simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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