Gerhard Engine

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Just read the GTR peice in the speedway star , ,you can sense the horns coming out from the mafia , the idea is exactly the way the sport has to go but it doesn't include the mafia and understandably they don't like that and they are going to throw the kitchen sink against the idea , every rider on the same engine with the same parts then sealed is as level playing field as your going to get in any Motorsport , it's got to be the way ,I applaud the Bspa on this and hope they get their way but to get rid of the cancer that is financially killing the sport at the moment is going to be difficult to say the least, I was against the GTR at first because of price and their claims of reliability , well they have proved me wrong on reliability and I'm happy to be wrong , I still think it's a bit on the pricey side for lower league speedway but I suppose that's the price to pay , I was thinking about if I was racing this year would I buy one , at NL 100% not , at championship level possibly 50/50 , at premier 75% yes I would

Edited January 5, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Little Thumper]

Just read the GTR peice in the speedway star , ,you can sense the horns coming out from the mafia , the idea is exactly the way the sport has to go but it doesn't include the mafia and understandably they don't like that and they are going to throw the kitchen sink against the idea , every rider on the same engine with the same parts then sealed is as level playing field as your going to get in any Motorsport , it's got to be the way ,I applaud the Bspa on this and hope they get their way but to get rid of the cancer that is financially killing the sport at the moment is going to be difficult to say the least

 

I was watching a you tube of a meeting which included you in action when the new Buxton track opened.

 

Having seen the amount of time you spent pushing your bike off onto the centre green, I bet you would have been grateful for a more reliable motor such as a GTR!

[Fourentee]

when you meet the young poles pretty much all of them can do engines themselves but brits only about 1in 20 even know how to check tappet gaps , I hope poultec are teaching riders this ,

 

Bike maintenance/engineering is listed as one of the modules on the Poultec programme.

I serviced myself 3 times that season

 

Away matches can be lonely affairs (sorry!).

[GWC]

Reading Kargers alternative view is pretty shocking really and shows these guys (tuners) have little

to offer but more of the same.

The black art of engine tuning seems to be their Devine right and keeping riders tied to expensive regular servicing and components.

I'm sure when the ESO Jawa first appeard there was similar castigation that this will never replace the good old JAP.

Within a short while the Jawa had changed speedway and made it more affordable to a lot of new young riders.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Reading Kargers alternative view is pretty shocking really and shows these guys (tuners) have little

to offer but more of the same.

The black art of engine tuning seems to be their Devine right and keeping riders tied to expensive regular servicing and components.

I'm sure when the ESO Jawa first appeard there was similar castigation that this will never replace the good old JAP.

Within a short while the Jawa had changed speedway and made it more affordable to a lot of new young riders.

well think about it , if sealed engines were made mandatory and only certain people like Trevor hedge were allowed to service them , the tuners have no business so obviously they are going to rubbish the idea but tough , this is about the future of speedway not some individuals and some of those individuals don't care a stuff about the people on the teraces

put aside the costs for a second and see what we would have if the GTR became mandatory , all the engines were identical from factory and then sealed , means every rider from the MDL to the premier league will be on the same engine , which in theory means a rider who was in the national league could ride in the premiership and if talent allowed would be competitive of which isn't the case now , the manufactuers (not Gerhard) are saying the engine should do 250 races which is a season without issue , that in my eyes is all you can ask from an engine really ,to me it levels the playing field out

Edited January 5, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[proud panther]

What will happen if the engine goes bang, will it be guaranteed ?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

What will happen if the engine goes bang, will it be guaranteed ?

if it is sealed they say they will gaurentee the parts against failure but not for bad maintaince

[KN1]

Reading Kargers alternative view is pretty shocking really and shows these guys (tuners) have little

to offer but more of the same.

 

The black art of engine tuning seems to be their Devine right and keeping riders tied to expensive regular servicing and

components.

 

I'm sure when the ESO Jawa first appeard there was similar castigation that this will never replace the good old JAP.

 

 

Within a short while the Jawa had changed speedway and made it more affordable to a lot of new young riders.

But that was by choice and not mandatory so rendering your current equipment worthless and you still had a choice as to who serviced/tuned your engine.

[foamfence]

But that was by choice and not mandatory so rendering your current equipment worthless and you still had a choice as to who serviced/tuned your engine.

Wouldn't it be better if everyone was using the same engines and didn't have to bother about servicing every few weeks? I can see your point about losing some of your freedoms but It must have become obvious to you (when you embarrassingly parade in front of near empty stadiums) that costs are too high, both in terms of running things about and collecting them and the bills involved. I know some of you do a lot of your own work but there are others who are too busy and don't have that option.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

IMO the GTR should become mandatory next season for championship and premiership and a year later for the national league , the GP remains a free for all but I believe if one of the top stars like Doyle or Hancock started riding them it would happen naturally anyway so the only thing that would need to be mandatory would be to seal them

[Sings4Speedway]

IMO the GTR should become mandatory next season for championship and premiership and a year later for the national league , the GP remains a free for all but I believe if one of the top stars like Doyle or Hancock started riding them it would happen naturally anyway so the only thing that would need to be mandatory would be to seal them

 

So 2018 for Prem/Champ and 2019 for NL. Out of interest Dean if you were still riding today and that was imposed what would you do? Buy 2+ new GTR engines, wait/hope that some become available 2nd hand (although if they are all the same why would you sell them?) or pack up as its a huge expense you cannot justify?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

So 2018 for Prem/Champ and 2019 for NL. Out of interest Dean if you were still riding today and that was imposed what would you do? Buy 2+ new GTR engines, wait/hope that some become available 2nd hand (although if they are all the same why would you sell them?) or pack up as its a huge expense you cannot justify?

I said in an earlier post if I was riding this year at NL level 100% wouldn't buy but if mandatory would buy second hand , in other 2 leagues properly yes I would cause as I see it there is no argument against Freddie lindgren a service costs and if they mandatory there is no performance issue so yes, maybe the national league left open then and that's the place for current engines to be fazed out naturally Edited January 6, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Sings4Speedway]

I said in an earlier post if I was riding this year at NL level 100% wouldn't buy but if mandatory would buy second hand , in other 2 leagues properly yes I would cause as I see it there is no argument against Freddie lindgren a service costs and if they mandatory there is no performance issue so yes, maybe the national league left open then and that's the place for current engines to be fazed out naturally

 

That sounds like a logical approach if things were to progress with a mandatory introduction meaning NL riders could utilise the outgoing engines and replace with GTRs when they can afford them.

My concern is that if there is no difference between one GTR to another the 2nd hand market will largely not exist barring retiring riders as why would a rider sell one for say £2000 and replace with an identical engine at a cost of £5000+? It would make life a lot harder for new riders entering the sport at an introductory budget level.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

That sounds like a logical approach if things were to progress with a mandatory introduction meaning NL riders could utilise the outgoing engines and replace with GTRs when they can afford them.

My concern is that if there is no difference between one GTR to another the 2nd hand market will largely not exist barring retiring riders as why would a rider sell one for say £2000 and replace with an identical engine at a cost of £5000+? It would make life a lot harder for new riders entering the sport at an introductory budget level.

there needs to be enough engines sold for it to work , on the subject of why would riders sell them on , well why do they now ? I've seen engines for sale from top riders that have 20 races from new , why ? But they do . I understand this idea is not without its questions or worries but it is our only chance of somewhere near a level playing field and it's.not like we are the only sport to do this , I have no financial gain from this idea although I think I should be on the payroll from GTR for the amount of smoke I'm blowing up his arse but I care passionately about speedway and I believe we are currently in a very unhealthy position regarding engines and I see it as a way forward Edited January 6, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Lord Skid]

Unless you were a top Rider, you won't understand their way of thinking, why try and drag everyone down to the lowest level.?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Unless you were a top Rider, you won't understand their way of thinking, why try and drag everyone down to the lowest level.?

I totally understand their way of thinking but I'm thinking about the future of the sport not individuals , if anybody has a better way of levelling the playing field and cutting the rising costs then let's hear them ,because riders are the first to moan that they are not making money but you give them a chance of change and nobody will take it . But contrary to a riders belief the sport has to carry on after they retire , they might not care but fans do . The fact is the sport can't afford the rising costs from riders and we have been given a lifeline without any downside to the fans and the sport , the only losers are the tuners and as I've said before we owe them nothing Edited January 6, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[waytogo28]

I think before we rush into " all riders must use the GTR" we need at least a season to see IF it is all that it claims to be re longevity, cheapness to run and results on track. Human nature means that some proportion of riders are not going to "get on" with the GTR. One of speedway's worst points is that there is a tendency to grasp at the " next best thing" that will revolutionise and save the sport. This has happened with rule changes, name changes etc etc and often six months later is proves to be a dead end. The GTR will not be a an economic saviour if all riders have one or two and then it turns out to be be not much better than what we currently have. Clearly it is MUCH more cheaper and seems likely to be no less effective to install a rev limiter on existing engines. Karger may be right that that rule may well be brought in by the FIM anyway before too long.

[FAST GATER]

I think before we rush into " all riders must use the GTR" we need at least a season to see IF it is all that it claims to be re longevity, cheapness to run and results on track. Human nature means that some proportion of riders are not going to "get on" with the GTR. One of speedway's worst points is that there is a tendency to grasp at the " next best thing" that will revolutionise and save the sport. This has happened with rule changes, name changes etc etc and often six months later is proves to be a dead end. The GTR will not be a an economic saviour if all riders have one or two and then it turns out to be be not much better than what we currently have. Clearly it is MUCH more cheaper and seems likely to be no less effective to install a rev limiter on existing engines. Karger may be right that that rule may well be brought in by the FIM anyway before too long.

Is Karger not tuner " turkeys voting for Christmas " springs to mind I am reluctant to believe that they(tuners ) will not do everything in their powers to throw a spanner in the works .(pun intended )

[foamfence]

I think before we rush into " all riders must use the GTR" we need at least a season to see IF it is all that it claims to be re longevity, cheapness to run and results on track. Human nature means that some proportion of riders are not going to "get on" with the GTR. One of speedway's worst points is that there is a tendency to grasp at the " next best thing" that will revolutionise and save the sport. This has happened with rule changes, name changes etc etc and often six months later is proves to be a dead end. The GTR will not be a an economic saviour if all riders have one or two and then it turns out to be be not much better than what we currently have. Clearly it is MUCH more cheaper and seems likely to be no less effective to install a rev limiter on existing engines. Karger may be right that that rule may well be brought in by the FIM anyway before too long.

Some riders have already had a season with them and they aren't compulsory (yet), also riders can try them out at Kings Lynn and Scunthorpe, both clubs currently have one available for test rides.

[mac101]

Can you see countries like Poland Sweden Denmark making these compulsory for riders ? you could also have 4 at each track in the country to try and every one will perform different you never get 2 engines the same no matter who builds them