Gerhard Engine

[Vince]

Some good points made fella...I did however say many times in this thread, that it wouldn't be easy and there would be questions to be solved. There would be many...however the whole point of the exercise, is to reduce costs and also stop the daily tinkering on engines by riders and tuners, looking to find that little edge. Time and money wasted in the big picture of things.

 

I agree that it is a possibility and worth investigating but I do think you are tending to ignore the problems because you think it is the answer. Equally I am undoubtedly making some of the problems worse than they need to be because I'm not convinced it's the way forward.

 

 

As for Clubs affording engines...I've covered that twice in previous posts above.

 

Employ the tuners available now...how many are there? Spread the costs.

 

Your next point I have covered again regarding selling on current equipment...or most likely it would be kept and used for their Individual events.

 

You have but I don't think you're right

 

If you employ all the current tuners how are you going to make sure all the engines are as equal as possible? It can only really work if you use a very limited number of mechanics and the same checking equipment. For example Moto2 engines all come from the same workshop and are checked on the same dyno, I believe that in the karting series that run sealed engines there are a very limited number of engine builders allowed to work on the motors.

 

Very few riders can afford or will want to run completely different equipment for the few individual meetings. Grasstrack is dying on it's arse and you won't lose a dozen engines a year to that. However you look at it those engines are scrap value.

 

 

Riders would sign a liability document, like in many other sports. I have to when ski racing.

 

You can take this as 100% gospel, liability waivers aren't worth as much as the paper they are written on, it's just a hope that some people will assume they are and not take legal advice.

 

 

As for the rest of your post...yes there are some good ideas there...however I don't think the rev limiter is the answer. How will a rev limiter stop riders tinkering with engines trying to make them go faster? How will it stop them putting in materials that are lighter and not as strong? It won't.

 

Seems to me that current thinking is to get engines to rev higher and higher by shortening the stroke and lightening flywheels, if you can't rev them there is no point carrying on down that route. Same with lightweight parts although there are some other benefits it's often in the chase to gain revs that they are fitted.

 

Since the first motorcycle was made they tinkered with it trying to make it faster. Since the second one was made they started racing them and had to tinker more to beat the other guy!!

 

If they can't tinker with the engines they will produce more expensive ignitions and clutches and carbs and more adjustable frames and so on. The only way I can see to keep the price of machinery down is a claiming rule where if you win a race anybody can buy your bike at the end of the meeting for £x therefore ensuring you make sure it's never worth more than that. has been done in other motorcycle sports but there have always been issues and problems around it.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Vince

[Humphrey Appleby]

I believe that in the karting series that run sealed engines there are a very limited number of engine builders allowed to work on the motors.

Depends on the class. I'm not a fan of the sealed classes as you're charged a premium for a service agent just to even look at the engine, and everyone knows some of the engines are still more equal than others. If it's not agents putting selected parts in the engines (which is perfectly legal), then it's the outright cheating some have indulged in for favoured drivers.

 

I also can't check someone hasn't whipped the decent parts out of my engines to put in a favoured client's.

 

The alternative is building engines to a fiche, but still doesn't stop putting selected parts in.

[mac101]

Riders tinkering with there engine will always happen no matter what type of engines they use and it's not the fastest engine that is the best in fact if it's too fast the rider will go backwards it's the rider that makes the decisions so that he can get the setup right on the day for that particular shape /size condition of track with changing everything from a tooth in the rear sprocket to the length of the bike ,clutch plates springs ,ignition, jet size tyre pressure get that right and your half way there to winning that's why most riders keep a note of what works best so most riders will have the basic set done up in their workshop before they get to the track then change it as the track. Changes durning the meeting , most riders will have a couple engines probably more than a couple each if they can afford it some work better on certain types of track and the tinkering on the day is not normally to get it to go faster it's to get the power on the ground and get the setup right I have not heard many rider this year complain about costs if riders were to turn up and pick one engine from 14 pretty sure they would all chuck it after all it's the riders that pay the tuners to maintain them not the promotion Coming from a motocross background speedway is a lot cheaper for sure

 

Speaking tonight at the Glasgow tigers fans night was Simon stead and he was taking about Gerhard engines and costs and said a good few elite and pl riders have tried them and don't like them And until the top GP riders use them they won't take off

Edited November 26, 2016 by mac101

[f-s-p]

And until the top GP riders use them they won't take off

Basic copycat mentality in all motorsport. If yourr not as good as Tai, buy his gloves, leathers, engine or carb and you will improve. But naturally you wont as you are hsit and you wont improve without practising over and over again...

[barncooseboy]

IF a ref fails for some reason to get to a league meeting the Clerk of the course is empowered to take over as ref.

To reduce costs for junior meetings why not have the COTC replace the SCB Ref for those races and meetings.

something is nagging me that says this used to be done.

[Tsunami]

IF a ref fails for some reason to get to a league meeting the Clerk of the course is empowered to take over as ref.

To reduce costs for junior meetings why not have the COTC replace the SCB Ref for those races and meetings.

something is nagging me that says this used to be done.

It's still done at Brough but only with second halfs. If the fixture is in the programme, the ref takes that meeting.

[piston197]

With the Indian firm Mahindra buying the rights to both the British BSA name and the Czech Jawa name in October this year, are we going to see Indian Jawa speedway engines , don't doubt they would be a cheaper engine, not so sure about the reliability?

[foamfence]

With the Indian firm Mahindra buying the rights to both the British BSA name and the Czech Jawa name in October this year, are we going to see Indian Jawa speedway engines , don't doubt they would be a cheaper engine, not so sure about the reliability?

I might be wrong but I thought the JAWA competition division had become separate from the road bikes.

[SCB]

I might be wrong but I thought the JAWA competition division had become separate from the road bikes.

Correct, they become JRM about 4 years ago

[tyretrax]

With the Indian firm Mahindra buying the rights to both the British BSA name and the Czech Jawa name in October this year, are we going to see Indian Jawa speedway engines , don't doubt they would be a cheaper engine, not so sure about the reliability?

The company that I worked for bought an Indian made Honda 125cc bike for courier work. Within months it was running like a bag nails, when the oil was drained it was as if someone had poured a load of glitter into it.

[trophykid]

With the Indian firm Mahindra buying the rights to both the British BSA name and the Czech Jawa name in October this year, are we going to see Indian Jawa speedway engines , don't doubt they would be a cheaper engine, not so sure about the reliability?

The Mahindra deal for JAWA is just the use of the JAWA name in the Indian home market. Otherwise I expect JAWA will continue to operate as they normally do.

[Oafski]

I think the Jawa 2 Strokes made in India were sold as Yezdis.

[martinmauger]

The company that I worked for bought an Indian made Honda 125cc bike for courier work. Within months it was running like a bag nails, when the oil was drained it was as if someone had poured a load of glitter into it.

I've heard similar tales about these engines, but also that they can be reliable and cheap to repair though I wouldn't consider buying one for myself. The road bikes are certainly cheaper to insure than are Japanese bikes....

[Long Eye]

I've heard similar tales about these engines, but also that they can be reliable and cheap to repair though I wouldn't consider buying one for myself. The road bikes are certainly cheaper to insure than are Japanese bikes....

They're cheap to insure because they are cheap cr@p. My neighbour got knocked of his a few years ago when the bike was a month old. The insurance company wrote it off and paid him 30 quid for it.

[iris123]

Just seen this from Hedge racing

 

 

Jordan Jenkins has just managed 1000 laps on his GTR engine before his first service.

The GTR engine looked like brand new inside, you could almost not see it had been ridden.

[mac101]

That's around 50 meetings it would depend what a major service costs and what parts are needed I seen the same post and these questions were asked,I take it that it would need a total rebuild of all the parts inside to survive another 1000 as I don't think. They would use the same piston and rod ect it could end up being expensive will wait and see if Trevor hedge replies

[f-s-p]

Just seen this from Hedge racing

 

Who's he/she? Does she/he use full throttle/revs?

 

I mean I could do 1000 laps as well! Any engine, no wear, I promise.

[iris123]

Who's he/she? Does she/he use full throttle/revs?

 

I mean I could do 1000 laps as well! Any engine, no wear, I promise.

Have no idea.Never heard of the person before.Just imagined it was a lunatic who gave the engine welly for 1000 laps Otherwise it isn't much of a testimonial if they guy has just poodled round in training sessions

[Tsunami]

Have no idea.Never heard of the person before.Just imagined it was a lunatic who gave the engine welly for 1000 laps Otherwise it isn't much of a testimonial if they guy has just poodled round in training sessions

He's a very good up and coming youth rider 15/16 who is about to break through to the Championship. Very good rider.

[f-s-p]

He's a very good up and coming youth rider 15/16 who is about to break through to the Championship. Very good rider.

Ok, good. So he actually "uses" the engine somewhat to cause possible wear. But still I think that Lindgren doing the same 1000 laps will cause more wear. If he does it, it sounds more convincing regarding the engines capability to handle use.