Gerhard Engine

[Star Lady]

I was thinking a mini series where Gerhard provide the engines and the riders all the rest? Could you just put this engine into a rolling chassis or would there be probs with bolt holes etc, shouldn't be?

Idea that has possibilities. Would be interesting to see how close or otherwise the racing was.

[PHILIPRISING]

I THINK there is a lot of confusion on here about the possible future use of GTRs in Britain. It would be impossible to make them compulsory for all sorts of reasons, not least the fact that so many riders who race in other countries, not to mention international events, would wish to continue to use GMs,

 

There is also the fact that Marcel Gerhard hasn't the funds to mass produce the engines that would be required.

 

My understanding is that the BSPA could possibly underwrite the cost of producing a significant number of GTR engines that would then be made available (sold) to riders racing in the UK.

 

They (BSPA) see this as a way of helping riders reduce their costs significantly over the course of a season, as has been the case with Freddie Lindgren. That would particularly benefit riders at the lower end of the scale who quite frankly cannot afford the service bills they incur during the course of a season. As long as the GTR is competitive, and Lindgren's performances suggest that it is, it will attract many who do not require the super-tuned ones currently favoured by those at the very top of the ladder. It will build its own niche market.

 

GM, who apparently are now in the process of modifying their own product, will remain the number one engine of choice not least because only they, at present, can meet the demand.

[IronScorpion]

Freddie Lindgren is the perfect case of the savings made during a season of less servicing/maintenance required but how many others have tried or are trying to use the GTR engines. As has been made public, Chris Harris could not get the best out of these engines & Jordan Jenkins, a young rider in the 500cc Championship who was also tried at NL level, saying that savings have been made at his level.

 

Does anyone know of any other riders that are using these engines, wether at home or abroad, that have had any success or feedback during 2016?

[foamfence]

Freddie Lindgren is the perfect case of the savings made during a season of less servicing/maintenance required but how many others have tried or are trying to use the GTR engines. As has been made public, Chris Harris could not get the best out of these engines & Jordan Jenkins, a young rider in the 500cc Championship who was also tried at NL level, saying that savings have been made at his level.

 

Does anyone know of any other riders that are using these engines, wether at home or abroad, that have had any success or feedback during 2016?

There are a few at NL and lower PL levels using them, last year Harris was using one in his grass bike. There are a few Poles and Doyle who have tried them but if you have a very large investment in GM it'll be difficult to make the break.

[martinmauger]

Adding my 2p's worth, if Freddie Lindgren was the only rider using GTR engines for the entire season, then surely more riders in different leagues would provide more & better data on these motors than just the one rider. Also, if you manage to get into pretty much any track's pits at warm-up some riders & mechanics do warm bikes up from cold at high revs and, standing next the start, some riders certainly rev and keep their engine at maximum revs once the green light goes on. Just sayin'.....

(Had probs with text editor)....

Edited November 20, 2016 by Martin Mauger

[speedibee]

You must work for the BPSA. Dont bother replying because I can't be bothered reading it. Nor anything else on this thread.

 

Negativity is a big reason why speedway is in such a poor state. People who won't open there eyes to new ideas just because 'we've always done it this way'.

Speedway is in a poor state , because it has spent far too long listening to people who stand on the terraces thinking they have all the answers , instead of listening to the people who have had experience and seek to benefit the sport without benefitting themselves ,when challenged these people usually flounce off , especailywhen faced by comments from people who have the relevant experience to be making suggestions .

so Peter John's is going to tell all his customers if they fit a limiter they don't need to bring their engines in every 40 or so races they will then do 90 races , like hell he will , so where is the saving ? , not very often I agree with rob Godfrey but I do on this , it will achieve nothing , if a rider feels like it's a worthwhile benifit then they can fit one , doesn't need another pointless product being forced in, all this is just another example of the speedway disease , papering over the ever widening cracks

if for any reason .a bike stops pulling it becomes unrideable , so a broken chain or a misfire will almost certainly result in the rider falling ,, so how does a rev limiter or traction control work ?????........ it.s not rocket science is it , it cuts the spark causing the engine to stop firing regularly ,Yes folks you have it,, it creates a misfire !!!! now refer back to the opening line of this post and hey presto I can hear pennies dropping all over, as to why those who know a bit more about speedway than how to fill a program in ,think rev limiters are not such a good idea

[speedibee]

Freddie Lindgren is the perfect case of the savings made during a season of less servicing/maintenance required but how many others have tried or are trying to use the GTR engines. As has been made public, Chris Harris could not get the best out of these engines & Jordan Jenkins, a young rider in the 500cc Championship who was also tried at NL level, saying that savings have been made at his level.

 

Does anyone know of any other riders that are using these engines, wether at home or abroad, that have had any success or feedback during 2016?

Chris Harris can't get the best out of any engine , so he's not the greatest of examples , I wonder how much of Freddies savings has made it's way back into British speedway ? ( guess here ... not 1 penny ) however the engine has shown it's potential and soon enough , there will be riders who can afford to offer their services for less , Next up Mr Gerhard needs to get working on a clutch . never before has a basicly simple principle .been subjected to so much pretence and bullrubbish , what is basicly a lump of ally machined to look fancy is £1,000 . of course Neb and scandic would dearly love everyone to go along with their pr that the materials used which don't last five minutes , are the best ones for the job , and of course that the price tag has anything to do with the actual value of the item . they are the best the best for 1 job , filling somebodies bank account ,

[Trees]

Idea that has possibilities. Would be interesting to see how close or otherwise the racing was.

Many people put this forward as a possibility for league speedway (tracks providing engines and riders draw for them etc), so something like this would certainly be a tester???

[GWC]

 

There is also the fact that Marcel Gerhard hasn't the funds to mass produce the engines that would be required

 

GM came along and buy them and then the project gets shelved.........or

 

GM, who apparently are now in the process of modifying their own product, will remain the number one engine of choice not least because only they, at present, can meet the demand.

GM see this as potentially challenging their monopoly and make changes to their engines thus matching the performance and servicing of the GTR engine.

[speedibee]

I was thinking a mini series where Gerhard provide the engines and the riders all the rest? Could you just put this engine into a rolling chassis or would there be probs with bolt holes etc, shouldn't be?

Eric Boocock tried to get the same sort of thing going with one of the big four supplying the engines , they had already invested quite a bit into R+d ,when the riders and the BSPA Poo pooed the idea . speedway shooting itself in the foot again and an opportunity to get the japs involved forever gone

[foamfence]

GM see this as potentially challenging their monopoly and make changes to their engines thus matching the performance and servicing of the GTR engine.

In that case the GTR is already a good thing, if it wasn't for that they wouldn't have bothered.

[GWC]

Eric Boocock tried to get the same sort of thing going with one of the big four supplying the engines , they had already invested quite a bit into R+d ,when the riders and the BSPA Poo pooed the idea . speedway shooting itself in the foot again and an opportunity to get the japs involved forever gone

If that was 10 years ago then they (BSPA) might be a bit more receptive now.

[PHILIPRISING]

Speedway is in a poor state , because it has spent far too long listening to people who stand on the terraces thinking they have all the answers , instead of listening to the people who have had experience and seek to benefit the sport without benefitting themselves ,when challenged these people usually flounce off , especailywhen faced by comments from people who have the relevant experience to be making suggestions .

if for any reason .a bike stops pulling it becomes unrideable , so a broken chain or a misfire will almost certainly result in the rider falling ,, so how does a rev limiter or traction control work ?????........ it.s not rocket science is it , it cuts the spark causing the engine to stop firing regularly ,Yes folks you have it,, it creates a misfire !!!! now refer back to the opening line of this post and hey presto I can hear pennies dropping all over, as to why those who know a bit more about speedway than how to fill a program in ,think rev limiters are not such a good idea

SO many tuners at the least, many riders at all levels don't know anything more than how to fill in a programme. Astonishing.

[speedibee]

so Peter John's is going to tell all his customers if they fit a limiter they don't need to bring their engines in every 40 or so races they will then do 90 races , like hell he will , so where is the saving ? , not very often I agree with rob Godfrey but I do on this , it will achieve nothing , if a rider feels like it's a worthwhile benifit then they can fit one , doesn't need another pointless product being forced in, all this is just another example of the speedway disease , papering over the ever widening cracks

fit a limiter on a speedway engine , and they will have to bring them in every time it cuts in . either because it's seized ( Bore Washed ) or bent the con rod (hydraulic lock ) , I can only assume that the people quoting car and bikes with rev limiters think that Speedway engines are fuel injected

[Tsunami]

Eric Boocock tried to get the same sort of thing going with one of the big four supplying the engines , they had already invested quite a bit into R+d ,when the riders and the BSPA Poo pooed the idea . speedway shooting itself in the foot again and an opportunity to get the japs involved forever gone

If you are talking about the Honda experiment, your following statements are not true. Honda had won every motorcycle championship, and in an anniversary year, they tried to break into speedway through Mick Grant, their Tech guy and former rider, who was a childhood mate of Eric's. Standard Motorcross engines, either 650 or 450cc's, with gearboxes, were bolted into standard frames, and it was obvious from the outset that the acceleration was woeful, and would have been semi OK only on the large circle circuits at constant revs. The riders hated them, and with the necessary development in engine cases to eliminate the gears, the whole idea was ditched.

So your 'shooting itself in the foot again" is not applicable to the BSPA, except to you with your statements.

[PHILIPRISING]

fit a limiter on a speedway engine , and they will have to bring them in every time it cuts in . either because it's seized ( Bore Washed ) or bent the con rod (hydraulic lock ) , I can only assume that the people quoting car and bikes with rev limiters think that Speedway engines are fuel injected

Jonas Kylmakorpi used one all season and had no problems and added that his service bills were dramatically reduced.

[Lord Skid]

Just a small thought, Fast Freddie has been developing the engine this season with Marcel, this would mean, altering cams, pistons, porting, compressions etc, and every alteration would involve a strip down, so we'll really have to wait till the engine is fully sorted before it can be left alone for the whole season, then we will have a true indication how maintenance friendly they are.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Jonas Kylmakorpi used one all season and had no problems and added that his service bills were dramatically reduced.

he had it set at 12,000 and he will only hit 10,500 in any race race and although he said it "can" hit 14,500 on start line he proberly wouldn't on British tracks so if it doesn't hit the limiter it has no barring on service bills , you do know santa isn't real don't you ? Edited November 20, 2016 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Tsunami]

Point I can't understand. With a limiter in place, when it reaches the chosen limit does it cut out or, like the name of the piece of kit, maintain the limit level regardless.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Point I can't understand. With a limiter in place, when it reaches the chosen limit does it cut out or, like the name of the piece of kit, maintain the limit level regardless.

it misfires , put in rev limiter in YouTube , plenty of bikes and cars showing limiter noise Edited November 20, 2016 by THE DEAN MACHINE