Gerhard Engine

[phillipsr]

Most other motor sports have classes where only homologated untouchable engines are used . these classes are usually the most popular with both competitors - like to compete on a level playing field at a reasonable cost , and spectators who are seeing closely contested races won by the most skilled not the fattest cheque book

 

Fair enough I could just see riots if you ask riders to pay for engines and then tell them they cant touch them

[foamfence]

 

Fair enough I could just see riots if you ask riders to pay for engines and then tell them they cant touch them

Well you'd presumably give them a lengthy notice of what was to happen.

[Gresham]

 

Who is buying the engines? If I had paid my own money to get these engines to then be told I'm not allowed to touch them at all id stop buying them and do something else, If the idea is the clubs by them then that's fine I guess although still think clubs would be unhappy about this, Also what happens when a rider rides individually who's buying the engines in the GP?

I answered those questions in my later post Phillip. It would need all those who work in Speedway, to stop and take stock. They have to look outside of the speedway bubble they have created. It isn't working...tinkering here and there every season doesn't/hasn't worked. It needs a complete overhaul, and from people outside of the current crop of older Promotors and influential ex riders who have been part of that bubble. They only see what they have created.

 

Speedway needs to start again. Forget about much of it's history. It needs to start from scratch.

 

The question that needs to be asked is...'if we were to create a new club sport from scratch, with no previous example...how would we create speedway as a sport, that is viable in this day and age?'

 

You have to start again...from the bottom up. A complete restructuring throughout and mindset.

 

Fair enough I could just see riots if you ask riders to pay for engines and then tell them they cant touch them

That's why the Clubs or governing bodies need to own the engines.

 

The riders mind set would also need to change.

 

Why do they think this way now?

 

If you said to all the GP riders, you are all riding on the same equipment provided by us...why would they complain?

 

Are they not confident in their own ability as a Speedway rider, to use there skills to win a race, rather than having to win the race in the workshop?

 

Would you not have more respect for winning, because you won because of your racing skills...not your tuning skills?

 

Even the top riders have quoted, that it's down to who has tuned the best that week leading up to a meeting.

 

How mental is that....what right thinking person thinks that's normal and something to be proud of.

 

How can the people that run the sport, not see that is a strange mindset?

 

Maybe it's because there are many influential people outside of riding, that can make a good living from the riders and how they run Speedway. That's my gut instinct.

[speedibee]

 

Yep thats it bring in the changes to the NL. The league where most riders would be happy ending the season breaking even. A league where riders juggle racing with full time jobs and will often have to sacrifice other aspects of life to continue racing.

I would suggest popping in to the pits of a few NL meetings and seeing what reaction you get to your suggestion. Whilst the riders are at the start of their career they are also the riders most likely to pack up and walk away.

 

Nl riders are usually the ones that new rules affect the most , here's an example , winter of 2014 my son is building his bikes for 2015 , new rule everybody is to use 2015 silencers . hand in pocket for £400 for 2 new silencers ,Feb 2015 rules change and 2010 silencers are acceptable . £400 worth of 2010 silencers now in a box under the bench , same thing happened with the Positive cutouts ,

[Star Lady]

Couldn't agree more! In a perfect world every track would have a stable of bikes maintained by a couple of mechanics and then issued, randomly, to that meeting's riders and returned after the meeting. But of course finances just wouldn't allow that to happen...but I can dream!

I had a conversation with Buster Chapman, must be nearly 20 years ago now, when he suggested just that. I thought at the time it would never happen cos it was just too sensible, but looking at where he is now, who knows.

Also what happens when a rider rides individually who's buying the engines in the GP?

I'll say it before Trees does... BSI and I'd be one of the first to agree with her.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Phillipsr ,on the question of who would be buying the engines for the GP ? Well as it is now domestic speedway is paying for the engines for riders to use for their own and bsi gain and where is the return for domestic speedway ?

[f-s-p]

Kylmäkorpi on twitter this week saying he's been using rev limiters all year and done min 89 heats between services.

[Mark]

Rob Godfrey is playing the role of an Ostrich by sticking his head in the sand and ignoring some excellent advice from those who know better than him. BPSA again pathetic.

[GWC]

Yep thats it bring in the changes to the NL. The league where most riders would be happy ending the season breaking even. A league where riders juggle racing with full time jobs and will often have to sacrifice other aspects of life to continue racing.

I would suggest popping in to the pits of a few NL meetings and seeing what reaction you get to your suggestion. Whilst the riders are at the start of their career they are also the riders most likely to pack up and walk away.

Negative response may I say - I sponsored a NL rider for a season and yes it's a struggle but he had little guidance apart from his grandfather who acted as mechanic and transport.

His education was to lean on the job and he had bright future until it became too expensive to continue.

The last resort being a blown engine after being fobbed off with some dodgy parts I believe.

Dog eat dog at all levels and it's not surprising the UK is light years behind the major Speedway countries where they look after Juniors throughout their development from a much younger age.

Edited November 18, 2016 by GWC

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Rob Godfrey is playing the role of an Ostrich by sticking his head in the sand and ignoring some excellent advice from those who know better than him. BPSA again pathetic.

so Peter John's is going to tell all his customers if they fit a limiter they don't need to bring their engines in every 40 or so races they will then do 90 races , like hell he will , so where is the saving ? , not very often I agree with rob Godfrey but I do on this , it will achieve nothing , if a rider feels like it's a worthwhile benifit then they can fit one , doesn't need another pointless product being forced in, all this is just another example of the speedway disease , papering over the ever widening cracks Edited November 18, 2016 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Mark]

so Peter John's is going to tell all his customers if they fit a limiter they don't need to bring their engines in every 40 or so races they will then do 90 races , like hell he will , so where is the saving ? , not very often I agree with rob Godfrey but I do on this , it will achieve nothing , if a rider feels like it's a worthwhile benifit then they can fit one , doesn't need another pointless product being forced in, all this is just another example of the speedway disease , papering over the ever widening cracks

it's his lack of willing to investigate by saying we've never done it before so why change now. IF everyone had that attitude in life we would still be cavemen. Why not open up your mind and try to see if savings can be made.

 

If a rider can cut costs then promoters can justifiably pay less to a rider to save money themselves.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

it's his lack of willing to investigate by saying we've never done it before so why change now. IF everyone had that attitude in life we would still be cavemen. Why not open up your mind and try to see if savings can be made.

 

If a rider can cut costs then promoters can justifiably pay less to a rider to save money themselves.

it has been tried , as I said if a rider thinks it works for them then use it but don't force it everybody , the answer is a complete new engine idea , if the actual engine wasn't so awful on speedway the f2 idea would be perfect. I still believe the answer is jawa , the cost , the capacity to build enough and the know how , it just needs someone to grow some balls and tell them what to make and enforce it through using holomagated parts Edited November 18, 2016 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[GWC]

So thinking aloud ....

 

would rev limiters work if introduced at NL level for all new riders entering the sport?

Would the age of the engine matter if second hand as opposed to brand new?

Promoters could give incentives to riders to go so many meetings before an engine needed attention.

[Mark]

it has been tried , as I said if a rider thinks it works for them then use it but don't force it everybody , the answer is a complete new engine idea , if the actual engine wasn't so awful on speedway the f2 idea would be perfect. I still believe the answer is jawa , the cost , the capacity to build enough and the know how , it just needs someone to grow some balls and tell them what to make and enforce it through using holomagated parts

You must work for the BPSA. Dont bother replying because I can't be bothered reading it. Nor anything else on this thread.

 

Negativity is a big reason why speedway is in such a poor state. People who won't open there eyes to new ideas just because 'we've always done it this way'.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

So thinking aloud ....

 

would rev limiters work if introduced at NL level for all new riders entering the sport?

Would the age of the engine matter if second hand as opposed to brand new?

Promoters could give incentives to riders to go so many meetings before an engine needed attention.

to be honest I would be surprised if any national league rider would even hit the limiter on a British track , the only time the top riders may hit the limiter at 12000 is at the start and on most British tracks not that much Rev is needed to get out the stsrt

 

Negativity is a big reason why speedway is in such a poor state.

yes of course it is 🙄

[IronScorpion]

I am surprised Rob is not on board with the limiters as he runs a garage & cars & motorcycles have "red lines" on the tacho with limiters used so you don't blow the head of the engine(valves, etc).

 

When the tests were done on the limiters, Rob was there at the tests, so knows first hand what was going on. One of the tests was held at the EWR & a Scorpion rider used in D Howe.

[sommelier]

to be honest I would be surprised if any national league rider would even hit the limiter on a British track , the only time the top riders may hit the limiter at 12000 is at the start and on most British tracks not that much Rev is needed to get out the stsrt

yes of course it is

Totally agree with you regarding riders not hit the Rev limiter on UK tracks. I honestly believe that the vast majority of riders are pulling much to higher gearing & the engine is not revving enough! Stand on turn 4 at Swindon is a good example, you can clearly hear the engine dying in the corner. I go to a lot of GPs & always go to practice, the only rider whos engine is revving significantly MUCH higher is Nicki Pedersen

[Trees]

Most other motor sports have classes where only homologated untouchable engines are used . these classes are usually the most popular with both competitors - like to compete on a level playing field at a reasonable cost , and spectators who are seeing closely contested races won by the most skilled not the fattest cheque book

Perhaps something like the Gerhard Series could be run here, if Mr Gerhard was interested I'm sure the fans would be 😊

[tyretrax]

Along the lines of the Honda trials?

[Trees]

Along the lines of the Honda trials?

I was thinking a mini series where Gerhard provide the engines and the riders all the rest? Could you just put this engine into a rolling chassis or would there be probs with bolt holes etc, shouldn't be?