Gerhard Engine

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

There appears to be two sides in this debate, the Riders view, who have all been ripped off repeatedly, and the outsider who has never experienced it.

riders haven't been ripped off by tuners after all it's the riders that want the extra speed/performance so the tuners are just doing what riders ask but the free for all that tuners have has pushed the prices up and up , apart from 500cc and 4 valves tuners are pretty much unregulated in what they can do and basically the parts they use are to get the best performance rather than reliability from them but if parts were made for reliability and holomagated and no machine work was allowed on the parts so everyone had to use them , no one would have an advantage and costs of parts could be set accordingly , I have been a rider , mechanic and done pretty much done everything in speedway but my thoughts these days are from a fan point of view and my concerns are for the future of the sport , I don't just pluck these ideas out of thin air , I ask questions from both sides of the fence , if I'm off the mark then fine , I have no axe to grind with any individual in the sport , I just want to see a future in the sport and one other point I would like to make is i have no financial intrest in any of my thoughts/proposals so I can't really be biased towards any solution or idea and that can't be said of other people who have had their say over the last couple of seasons , I believe the sport has come to the end if it's financial system and a new financial structure is needed and everyone from riders mechanics and tuners are going to feel like they are being hard done too but it's got to happen with the end result being a cheaper sport for fans to attend

[Lord Skid]

Think the 4 valve is regulated, not sure about the 500cc though.

[Vince]

PJR, SWR, and others.

Surely a 'bad tuner' would lose business?

 

OK, maybe a better phrase would be very expensive. I just don't think all tuners are products of the devil, some, probably most, do a decent job for the price they charge.

 

And yes, I have paid for a Speedway engine to be serviced a few of times although I was generally too much of a tight arse to pay somebody else and did them myself.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Just reading the piece in the speedway star about the Rev limiters , a couple of points , setting the limit above 10,000 revs isn't going to make a dent in service costs and to set it lower is dangerous to the riders and all these "experts" keep ignoring the fact that all motorsports use the same principle 100% traction from rear wheel onto the ground but speedway is completely the opposite , it requires the exact opposite way of thinking to ride , the clue is in the fact that a tyre lasts 5 mins , it is stupid to any engineer to have a single cylinder engine Reving at over 10,000 and only producing 65 mph but that's speedway and these so called "experts " should know better

[PHILIPRISING]

Just reading the piece in the speedway star about the Rev limiters , a couple of points , setting the limit above 10,000 revs isn't going to make a dent in service costs and to set it lower is dangerous to the riders and all these "experts" keep ignoring the fact that all motorsports use the same principle 100% traction from rear wheel onto the ground but speedway is completely the opposite , it requires the exact opposite way of thinking to ride , the clue is in the fact that a tyre lasts 5 mins , it is stupid to any engineer to have a single cylinder engine Reving at over 10,000 and only producing 65 mph but that's speedway and these so called "experts " should know better

ONE man's opinion and all that but with respect think that possibly people like Peter Johns, Marcel Gerhard and Kelvin Tatum, to name but a few, actually do know better.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

ONE man's opinion and all that but with respect think that possibly people like Peter Johns, Marcel Gerhard and Kelvin Tatum, to name but a few, actually do know better.

fine , bury your head in the sand as usual , Peter John's and the like are driving this sport to oblivion , you can see it , everyone can see it , we are living it but still it goes on , maybe the sport deserves to die , you would think so the way that the influenceial people treat it, speedway is not f1 not even a poor mans f1 , never has been never will be ,the majority of fans both current and ex don't give a damm about engines or their tuners , all the sport needs is a cheap reliable engine that can't be tuned/ messed about with , enforced through holomagation of parts and strict rules , everything else is plastering over the huge hole we have dug for ourselves Edited November 17, 2016 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Star Lady]

,the majority of fans both current and ex don't give a damm about engines or their tuners

 

Never a truer word written

 

I don't begin to understand any technical aspect of speedway. I don't give a toss about revs/teeth/tyres etc. What I and 99% of people do care about is good racing and that isn't dependant on bikes going 1 mph faster or 100mph faster. It happens when the majority of engines perform the same. Strangely that happens before expensive tuners etc get their money raking mitts on them.

 

Rant over

[Long Eye]

 

Never a truer word written

 

I don't begin to understand any technical aspect of speedway. I don't give a toss about revs/teeth/tyres etc. What I and 99% of people do care about is good racing and that isn't dependant on bikes going 1 mph faster or 100mph faster. It happens when the majority of engines perform the same. Strangely that happens before expensive tuners etc get their money raking mitts on them.

 

Rant over

Maybe if you actually started to learn about all that other stuff then you might enjoy the sport more. It works for other fans of motor sports.

[PHILIPRISING]

fine , bury your head in the sand as usual , Peter John's and the like are driving this sport to oblivion , you can see it , everyone can see it , we are living it but still it goes on , maybe the sport deserves to die , you would think so the way that the influenceial people treat it, speedway is not f1 not even a poor mans f1 , never has been never will be ,the majority of fans both current and ex don't give a damm about engines or their tuners , all the sport needs is a cheap reliable engine that can't be tuned/ messed about with , enforced through holomagation of parts and strict rules , everything else is plastering over the huge hole we have dug for ourselves

DOESN'T really answer the question of rev limiters which so many people do actually think would help bring down costs for riders. Peter Johns also makes many other good points about maintenance of engines which are hardly designed to increase his work load.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

DOESN'T really answer the question of rev limiters which so many people do actually think would help bring down costs for riders. Peter Johns also makes many other good points about maintenance of engines which are hardly designed to increase his work load.

if the engine doesn't hit the limiter during a race what's the point of the limiter ?yes John's does but we are talking peanuts in money saving , every rider should know the importance of a clean air filter and yes there are mechanics who Rev the engines in the pits but we are talking hardly a difference in cost , gerhard , kelvin and Peter are all good at their job which is to be the fastest but as a way forward for the sport they seem ignorant and single minded

Maybe if you actually started to learn about all that other stuff then you might enjoy the sport more. It works for other fans of motor sports.

that the problem speedway is not a motor sport , it's a team sport on motorbikes Edited November 17, 2016 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Gresham]

riders haven't been ripped off by tuners after all it's the riders that want the extra speed/performance so the tuners are just doing what riders ask but the free for all that tuners have has pushed the prices up and up , apart from 500cc and 4 valves tuners are pretty much unregulated in what they can do and basically the parts they use are to get the best performance rather than reliability from them but if parts were made for reliability and holomagated and no machine work was allowed on the parts so everyone had to use them , no one would have an advantage and costs of parts could be set accordingly , I have been a rider , mechanic and done pretty much done everything in speedway but my thoughts these days are from a fan point of view and my concerns are for the future of the sport , I don't just pluck these ideas out of thin air , I ask questions from both sides of the fence , if I'm off the mark then fine , I have no axe to grind with any individual in the sport , I just want to see a future in the sport and one other point I would like to make is i have no financial intrest in any of my thoughts/proposals so I can't really be biased towards any solution or idea and that can't be said of other people who have had their say over the last couple of seasons , I believe the sport has come to the end if it's financial system and a new financial structure is needed and everyone from riders mechanics and tuners are going to feel like they are being hard done too but it's got to happen with the end result being a cheaper sport for fans to attend

 

if the engine doesn't hit the limiter during a race what's the point of the limiter ?yes John's does but we are talking peanuts in money saving , every rider should know the importance of a clean air filter and yes there are mechanics who Rev the engines in the pits but we are talking hardly a difference in cost , gerhard , kelvin and Peter are all good at their job which is to be the fastest but as a way forward for the sport they seem ignorant and single minded

that the problem speedway is not a motor sport , it's a team sport on motorbikes

 

Stop talking sense... ;-)

[Lord Skid]

It's not really worth debating anymore, but just imagine coming into the pit bend at Rye House racing hard, middle of the bend and the rev limiter kicks in, which hospital do you end up in? I used Rye as an example, as it is always slick, and this is where the rev limiter will come in most.

[PHILIPRISING]

It's not really worth debating anymore, but just imagine coming into the pit bend at Rye House racing hard, middle of the bend and the rev limiter kicks in, which hospital do you end up in? I used Rye as an example, as it is always slick, and this is where the rev limiter will come in most.

FROM what I understand the limit would be set at around 13,000 rpm and would only in practice kick in at the start line. You wouldn't need an engine revving at over 13,000 to get round the Rye House corners, or anywhere else for that matter, unless you had made a complete pig's ear of the gearing.

[Long Eye]

FROM what I understand the limit would be set at around 13,000 rpm and would only in practice kick in at the start line. You wouldn't need an engine revving at over 13,000 to get round the Rye House corners, or anywhere else for that matter, unless you had made a complete pig's ear of the gearing.

My jockey last year was running a system that retarded the ignition when it saw 12000 rpm. Perfect for slick track starts and as the torque curve tends to die off at around 10500 rpm there was no danger of it kicking in during a race.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

FROM what I understand the limit would be set at around 13,000 rpm and would only in practice kick in at the start line. You wouldn't need an engine revving at over 13,000 to get round the Rye House corners, or anywhere else for that matter, unless you had made a complete pig's ear of the gearing.

so as I said if it's set way above what is needed what's the point of it being there ?

[sommelier]

so as I said if it's set way above what is needed what's the point of it being there ?

I believe more engine damage is done in the pits over revving engines on the stand than on the track!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Why not reduce the current engines back to 2 valve heads , you would reduce the revs by nature and the costs of valves and springs would be halved

I believe more engine damage is done in the pits over revving engines on the stand than on the track!

i am a mechanic and it's very few idiots who Rev engines to much in the pits

[foamfence]

I believe more engine damage is done in the pits over revving engines on the stand than on the track!

I think you'll find that most damage is caused at the start line.

[sommelier]

I think you'll find that most damage is caused at the start line.

Whether at the start line or on a stand, still free revving

[GWC]

Ive noticed that riders are doing far less practise starts these days so is this as a result of the many reruns we seem to have?

Perhaps the referees need to be educated in engine wear and be less aggressive over starting procedure.

Edited November 18, 2016 by GWC