Gerhard Engine

[uk_martin]

Aren't they sealed engines so should not need any tuning/servicing?!

It appears that they are sealed. So "Sealed GTR" engined riders will have to compete against "Tuned GM" engined riders. Should be interesting.

 

How long will it take Edward Kennett (other cheats are available) and his team of accomplished hole borers to find a way to open the seal and re-seal an engine after playing around with its insides?

 

£4000 for an engine you can use out of the box...

... a bargain £4000...

 

£4,000 PLUS 20% VAT = £4,800.00 - Is that still a bargain? I dunno... Brand new GTR vs partly used, newly reconditioned & tuned GM...I wonder if it will take off? What will the riders choose? Best of luck like, but not holding my breath here.

Edited December 19, 2016 by uk martin

[speedibee]

The riders will still be able to alter the " set ups" I'm sure. The bits like carb and ignition changes etc will still be possible on a" sealed engine", the parts that will not be accessible are the engine internals, and that's where the big money goes.

 

We are assuming of course that the method of sealing the engine is foolproof.

simple as soon as a monster rider starts going 10 MPH faster on one . we will know they have cracked the seal

[Pirate Nick]

simple as soon as a monster rider starts going 10 MPH faster on one . we will know they have cracked the seal

I never break the seal until i absolutely have to. 😉

[Daniel Smith]

You can't do that, they are sealed and any tampering makes them illegal to use. They are also being sold on a first come first served basis, irrespective of club.

 

I haven't seen anything that says the engines are sealed.

Who says it's illegal to open one up?

Doesn't it have to be an FIM directive on legality with engines. BSPA/SCB can't set their own rules on engine manufacturers?

If they're sealed units, if one goes bang are we saying that's bin material and a new one has to be purchased?

[MattK]

It appears that they are sealed. So "Sealed GTR" engined riders will have to compete against "Tuned GM" engined riders. Should be interesting.

 

How long will it take Edward Kennett (other cheats are available) and his team of accomplished hole borers to find a way to open the seal and re-seal an engine after playing around with its insides?

 

How difficult would it be to properly scrutinise these engines to ensure they have not been modified internally?

[foamfence]

 

How difficult would it be to properly scrutinise these engines to ensure they have not been modified internally?

The whole point of them is that they'll go most of a full season without servicing. If you tamper with them and fit none standard parts, you'll doubtlessly shorten that span and you wouldn't be able to have them serviced by the factory or it's appointed agents. Two things might come of this, either they eventually become compulsory or GM and JAWA up their game and produce something comparable. The current system is unsustainable, both in terms of cost and the frequent attention needed.

[Sings4Speedway]

If i was to purchase one of these engines then surely i can do with it what i choose? I can accept that if the seal is broken it would invalidate any warranty that it is supplied with (whatever that warranty may be worth?).

Additionally what happens if i or another awkward sole was to walk along and cut the seal off of somebody's Gerhard engine?

[foamfence]

If i was to purchase one of these engines then surely i can do with it what i choose? I can accept that if the seal is broken it would invalidate any warranty that it is supplied with (whatever that warranty may be worth?).

Additionally what happens if i or another awkward sole was to walk along and cut the seal off of somebody's Gerhard engine?

I suppose you could do that and I suppose the BSPA could refuse to allow you to use it in their events.

[Gresham]

So the engines are sealed to prevent tuning and are designed to reduce servicing costs. That's music to my ears.

 

However...how will an engine that's been designed not to be tuned, compare when racing against a highly tuned GM for example?

 

I'm all for reducing costs...however...surely that should include making it a level playing field?

 

Hopefully there will come a time in the near future, where every rider is racing on sealed engines, that are made illegal by the BSPA to be tinkered with.

 

I really hope for the good of the sport, that some riders don't start breaking the seal on these engines and try to start 'tuning' them.

 

Fingers crossed, that the BSPA and Gerhard get to a position where they can subsidise the costs of these engines and offer them to all the Club riders.

 

Every rider, racing in the league, on a sealed GTR ( or whoever ) engine, made illegal to tamper with, with the bonus of reduced costs, is surely beneficial to Club sport in this country?

[Sings4Speedway]

I suppose you could do that and I suppose the BSPA could refuse to allow you to use it in their events.

On that basis i suppose i could remove the seal of another competitors engine and prevent them from using it in a BSPA event? All hypothetical of course. Same goes for a rider who crashes and knocks the seal off?

Whilst im not against a new engine being introduced as i feel its essential there is variety i just don't see how the sealed engine idea would be enforced.

 

Much in the same way that if everybody used a sealed GTR some would be happier with the output than others. Its common knowledge that tuners will build several engines, a rider will take them to a track, try everyone and pick their preferred few from the bunch. So if the top riders all got to do this with batches of GTR engines it would mean the lower ranks would still be at a disadvantage.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Sings4Kings

[foamfence]

On that basis i suppose i could remove the seal of another competitors engine and prevent them from using it in a BSPA event? All hypothetical of course. Same goes for a rider who crashes and knocks the seal off?

Whilst im not against a new engine being introduced as i feel its essential there is variety i just don't see how the sealed engine idea would be enforced.

 

Much in the same way that if everybody used a sealed GTR some would be happier with the output than others. Its common knowledge that tuners will build several engines, a rider will take them to a track, try everyone and pick their preferred few from the bunch. So if the top riders all got to do this with batches of GTR engines it would mean the lower ranks would still be at a disadvantage.

I see your cup is half empty, have you actually seen the seals? Lets give it a chance, it's an attempt to cut costs and level the playing field. I applaud that and we can't just carry on getting into a worse state.

[Reliant Robin]

I don't think there's anything in place (in terms of rules and regs) to stop these engines being tuned up......but as the point is to reduce rider costs long-term then the riders will only be doing themselves out of pocket initially by going down that route.

 

Is this not the same engine that Freddie Lindgren used in EL and GP's for the majority of 2016? So they are made to compete already with the 'souped up' GM's and the like. Always people quick to knock any idea but to carry on without attempting to address the spiralling costs would see the sport continuing to decline.

[Vince]

You'd have to going the seals are more likely to be a paint or something rather than a wire!

Lifetime ban from the pits if caught would stop any tampering I would think.

Not convinced it's the way forward but at least they are trying to do something.

[Wolfsbane]

Just read these are sealed units. No good for Gary Guglielmi then.

[uk_martin]

I see your cup is half empty...

No. He's just been around speedway for more than 5 minutes.

[foamfence]

No. He's just been around speedway for more than 5 minutes.

Me too, that's why I see the need to at least give this a try.

[Sings4Speedway]

I'm certainly not against giving new things a try, far from it but I just want thongs to be considered fully and documented correctly so everyone knows the rules and how they are to be applied. I just tire of new initiatives being implemented and not thoroughly thought through and then rulings made on the fly to cover eventualities that should have been foreseen.

[mac101]

You honestly beliveve Freddie's was a standard sealed engine out the box no chance of that lol

[f-s-p]

You'd have to going the seals are more likely to be a paint or something rather than a wire!

Lifetime ban from the pits if caught would stop any tampering I would think.

Not convinced it's the way forward but at least they are trying to do something.

A couple of years ago I spoke with a person who was heavily in to MotoGP. They already had controlled/sealed/lotteried (is that a word?) engines in one or two of the three classes. Anyway, like almost anyone knows, no two engines can be built to perform the same. So he told me, that they could not do that in MotoGP either.

 

So is that OK to introduce that in to speedway? Sealed engines and what comes your way for 4k + VAT is yours even if the dyno says it's 15 % less something and your gut feeling after you've ridden it says bin it...

[foamfence]

A couple of years ago I spoke with a person who was heavily in to MotoGP. They already had controlled/sealed/lotteried (is that a word?) engines in one or two of the three classes. Anyway, like almost anyone knows, no two engines can be built to perform the same. So he told me, that they could not do that in MotoGP either.

 

So is that OK to introduce that in to speedway? Sealed engines and what comes your way for 4k + VAT is yours even if the dyno says it's 15 % less something and your gut feeling after you've ridden it says bin it...

If a dyno test revealed that, you would take the engine back.