Gerhard Engine

[PHILIPRISING]

So Freddie is happy, he has agreed to NEVER get his tuned. But another GP rider does, he start gating like never before and winning GPs from nowhere so the other 13 regular GP riders get a Gerhard and get it tuned, they're all now on a par with that first guy but Freddie is left scoring 1 or 2 a GP. What does he do? Stick to his promise or suck it up so he can compete with the GP boys? But now 15 GP riders have these super fast bikes, that means the top 20-odd non-GP riders will need the same too so that they can compete in the league and stand a chance of making the GP series.

 

What Gerhard has done is commendable but once someone gets one tuned and it goes faster everyone will have to do the same to keep up, thus eliminating the cost saving.

 

I hope I'm wrong but unless the powers that be legislate against this engine being opened up or being changed from standard it'll happen

YOU are assuming that a tuner can get it to go faster. No one has suggested it is the fastest out there, better than a PJR or the very much in vogue Graversen (Doyle).

 

At a time when most riders, including some in the SGP, are concerned at how much they are spending on frequent expensive services, it is obviously an attractive proposition as it is.

 

Many riders currently purchasing a bog standard GM then despatch to the likes of Peter Johns, Flemming Graversen, Jan Andersson, etc, who replace many of its components with what they consider to be better and considerably more expensive ones.

 

Marcel has attempted to cut that out and supply an engine that already has the finest materials in-built and doesn't require taking up a level.

 

I have admitted many times on here that no one knows less about the workings on any engine let alone a speedway one and have no particular reason to beat the GTR drum but the proof does appear to be in the eating.

[tyretrax]

Why don't the manufactures put all the goodies in when building the engines?

[speedibee]

YOU are assuming that a tuner can get it to go faster. No one has suggested it is the fastest out there, better than a PJR or the very much in vogue Graversen (Doyle).

 

At a time when most riders, including some in the SGP, are concerned at how much they are spending on frequent expensive services, it is obviously an attractive proposition as it is.

 

Many riders currently purchasing a bog standard GM then despatch to the likes of Peter Johns, Flemming Graversen, Jan Andersson, etc, who replace many of its components with what they consider to be better and considerably more expensive ones.

 

Marcel has attempted to cut that out and supply an engine that already has the finest materials in-built and doesn't require taking up a level.

 

I have admitted many times on here that no one knows less about the workings on any engine let alone a speedway one and have no particular reason to beat the GTR drum but the proof does appear to be in the eating.

some riders may well be concerned about the cost , but mediocre riders like Doyle , who have found the edge that was lacking in their ability ,will continue to spend to keep that edge .otherwise they will return to being mediocre

[Fromafar]

some riders may well be concerned about the cost , but mediocre riders like Doyle , who have found the edge that was lacking in their ability ,will continue to spend to keep that edge .otherwise they will return to being mediocre

Bit harsh on Doyle,you still to be able to ride better equipment. Not just sit on it.

[PHILIPRISING]

VERY harsh on Doyle. Mediocre he ain't

[Lord Skid]

Mr Speedway Star really carries a torch for the engine, if they were as good as Fast Freddie says, why are Harris and Lambert not using them, if two top level Riders tried them, but don't use them, surely that says something.

I have no hidden agenda, fortunately I no longer have a vested interest in Speedway, so I can now just speak as I find, and believe me with 25 years involvement I've seen just about everything, good and bad.

[Fourentee]

I don't think even Freddie believes they are necessarily the finished article yet. But he felt the Gerhard suited his style and had development scope. Obviously the advantage there is that, if you're the 'name' rider associated with the product early on and it's going well, then you have a potential advantage to start with and you're best placed to keep the project moving forward in the way you want it to. Fair play to Freddie; he committed to it in a big way and that must have been a risk.

[PHILIPRISING]

BECAUSE neither Harris nor Lambert were prepared to work with Gerhard and provide him with the feedback he needed. Freddie has worked closely with Marcel from last winter through the current season.

 

I'm not carrying a torch for the GTR but do advocate anything that brings down costs.

[speedibee]

VERY harsh on Doyle. Mediocre he ain't

IN your opinion of course , I think a decade of middle order premier league ,more then qauntifies my opinion ,

 

 

Mr Speedway Star really carries a torch for the engine, if they were as good as Fast Freddie says, why are Harris and Lambert not using them, if two top level Riders tried them, but don't use them, surely that says something.

I have no hidden agenda, fortunately I no longer have a vested interest in Speedway, so I can now just speak as I find, and believe me with 25 years involvement I've seen just about everything, good and bad.

I suppose you could level the accusation "Carries a Torch " at me as well . personally I think they are the best thing since sliced bread or 2 valve engines , nothing would suit me better than to see PJR ,lantenhammer , Nischler , Weiss , shut up shop ,and stop bleeding speedway dry , If Gerhards can somehow break the cycle of the never ending money pit to win races ,there can only be 1 winner ,SPEEDWAY

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

BECAUSE neither Harris nor Lambert were prepared to work with Gerhard and provide him with the feedback he needed. Freddie has worked closely with Marcel from last winter through the current season.

 

I'm not carrying a torch for the GTR but do advocate anything that brings down costs.

then why won't you say anything against the tuners ? They are the cancer that is eating away at the sports finances , pushing and pushing the limits and making speedway like a poor mans f1 and speedway never was and never will be an engineers sport

[foamfence]

then why won't you say anything against the tuners ? They are the cancer that is eating away at the sports finances , pushing and pushing the limits and making speedway like a poor mans f1 and speedway never was and never will be an engineers sport

Presumably because they buy advertising space and at least one has had several multi-page features, over recent years.

[PHILIPRISING]

Presumably because they buy advertising space and at least one has had several multi-page features, over recent years.

THANKS, best laugh I've had in ages.

[foamfence]

THANKS, best laugh I've had in ages.

You still haven't answered the question.

[PHILIPRISING]

You still haven't answered the question.

SHOW me the advertising and the several multi-page features and you will have your answer

[foamfence]

SHOW me the advertising and the several multi-page features and you will have your answer

Peter Johns has had multi-page features, for one. Over the years a number of engine specialists have advertised in SS. Remember I used the word 'presumably' and didn't actually claim fact. The 'answer' isn't mine by the way, it's Dean's.

[PHILIPRISING]

Peter Johns has had multi-page features, for one. Over the years a number of engine specialists have advertised in SS. Remember I used the word 'presumably' and didn't actually claim fact. The 'answer' isn't mine by the way, it's Dean's.

DON'T want to get too pedantic here but you suggested "several multi-page features" which isn't the case and can you name those tuners who have advertised in SS.

[Vince]

I think that there are good and bad 'tuners' like everything else. Some charge a very reasonable price and do a very good job. Doing your own engines will always be cheaper because somebody who does it for a living can't take the risk of running a rod for an extra spell or just replacing rings and not the piston. Too many breakdowns and the 'tuner' loses his reputation and livelihood.

 

As for the Gerhard engine even at NL level there will be a couple of riders with plenty of dad's money to spend who will have somebody try to get more out of them. If they start winning then everybody will be back on the same merry go round with a higher starting price. The opportunity is there to reduce costs but only if they jump on it now, once the tuning starts it's back to square one.

 

Perhaps they should bring in a claiming rule set at just above the price of a standard Gerhard engine. Any rider can buy a race winning engine for say £250 above the standard engine price (for the inconvenience of having to replace it). If riders then choose Jawa or GM engines they have the leeway to spend up to that figure on tuning them, any more is a major risk.

[foamfence]

DON'T want to get too pedantic here but you suggested "several multi-page features" which isn't the case and can you name those tuners who have advertised in SS.

PJR, SWR, and others.

I think that there are good and bad 'tuners' like everything else. Some charge a very reasonable price and do a very good job. Doing your own engines will always be cheaper because somebody who does it for a living can't take the risk of running a rod for an extra spell or just replacing rings and not the piston. Too many breakdowns and the 'tuner' loses his reputation and livelihood.

 

As for the Gerhard engine even at NL level there will be a couple of riders with plenty of dad's money to spend who will have somebody try to get more out of them. If they start winning then everybody will be back on the same merry go round with a higher starting price. The opportunity is there to reduce costs but only if they jump on it now, once the tuning starts it's back to square one.

 

Perhaps they should bring in a claiming rule set at just above the price of a standard Gerhard engine. Any rider can buy a race winning engine for say £250 above the standard engine price (for the inconvenience of having to replace it). If riders then choose Jawa or GM engines they have the leeway to spend up to that figure on tuning them, any more is a major risk.

Surely a 'bad tuner' would lose business?

[Lord Skid]

There appears to be two sides in this debate, the Riders view, who have all been ripped off repeatedly, and the outsider who has never experienced it.

Someone also mentioned there was limited production available, let's hope the 100 approx EL & PL Riders don't all order one.

[Sings4Speedway]

Given the price per unit its a big gamble for many riders to order one. As shown so far by the Bomber/Lingren comparison its clear these engines can work extremely well when they are set up correctly/they suit the riders style.

However if every rider had one the know how on getting them set up and working to their optimum would eventually become common knowledge (to exeryone except Bomber) and then they would end up being cracked open and fiddled with. Exactly the same thing happened when the 250cc Jawa was first launched and many times before.

In my opinion the only way to reduce the monies spent on tuning is reduce the funds riders have available to do it.