speedibee Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 And Freddie will have his GM's ready to slot back in if/when he gets blown away. Sounds likje your'e not a fan of the Gerhard Lord Skid , from what iv'e seen of them they are as good as a stock GM or Jawa , and can only get better as riders find better setups . Judging them using Chris Harris as an indicator is not really a fair yardstick as his ground crew are not exactly top of their field . lets see what happens when a Craig Cummins type sets one up for his rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Just ultra sceptical when it comes to people having the answer to Speedways problems, without looking after themselves very nicely in the process, just thinking of all those meetings saved by the dirt deflectors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourentee Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 And Freddie will have his GM's ready to slot back in if/when he gets blown away. I dare say; surely he'd be daft not to? But he's done intensive testing on the Gerhards twice in France, won the Olympique on one last year and will have at least four to campaign on this season. How committed do you want him to be? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 talking to someone who knows more about the engine than me I understand the crucial element of the engine is a very special high spec oil pump, this pump will effectively flood every part of the internals with a lot of oil at all times, this will help to reduce internal wear, and also local temperatures and increase the engine life. The pump is, I understand based on formula one car technology where 4 engines have to do 20 races of some 200 miles each or 2 hours each race. This suggests the pump should easily cope with a speedway season. a piston ought to be able to do 30 miles (390 metres x 4 lapsx 30 matches) as should a cam and its associated mechanicals, crankshafts plus big end bearings ought to be able to do a season if made to a good spec and especially quality materials. Bearings tend to be bought in from specialist manufacturers who also supply for other engines where they last many miles, speedway tuners will say they need replacement, but do they then go in the bin or into the next bike through the doors? This bottom end fragility suggests a lack of oil OR rubbish metal spec for the bottom end. The Gerhard spec appears to have grabbed these 'Cheap' shortcuts and applied top spec materials to the problem areas. Only time will ultimately answer these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 In defence of tuners when your reputation is dependant on the speed and reliability of the engines you build then you are going to try to convince riders to use the best available parts and replace them perhaps more frequently than necessary just to be on the safe side. Some also invest pretty heavily in machinery and do a good engineering job at reasonable money, they aren't all ripping riders off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) In defence of tuners when your reputation is dependant on the speed and reliability of the engines you build then you are going to try to convince riders to use the best available parts and replace them perhaps more frequently than necessary just to be on the safe side. Some also invest pretty heavily in machinery and do a good engineering job at reasonable money, they aren't all ripping riders off. I am sure your right but servicing an engine "once "a season is not in their best interest is it !!!!! Edited January 22, 2016 by FAST GATER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 No it's not but it won't be long before they have a lot of different set ups for the Gerhard like they do the others so 'tuning' would be more expensive to make up for the servicing is my guess. There will still be riders thinking they want a 'fresh' motor every other meeting and willing/able to pay for it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 talking to someone who knows more about the engine than me I understand the crucial element of the engine is a very special high spec oil pump, this pump will effectively flood every part of the internals with a lot of oil at all times, this will help to reduce internal wear, and also local temperatures and increase the engine life. The pump is, I understand based on formula one car technology where 4 engines have to do 20 races of some 200 miles each or 2 hours each race. This suggests the pump should easily cope with a speedway season. a piston ought to be able to do 30 miles (390 metres x 4 lapsx 30 matches) as should a cam and its associated mechanicals, crankshafts plus big end bearings ought to be able to do a season if made to a good spec and especially quality materials. Bearings tend to be bought in from specialist manufacturers who also supply for other engines where they last many miles, speedway tuners will say they need replacement, but do they then go in the bin or into the next bike through the doors? This bottom end fragility suggests a lack of oil OR rubbish metal spec for the bottom end. The Gerhard spec appears to have grabbed these 'Cheap' shortcuts and applied top spec materials to the problem areas. Only time will ultimately answer these questions. As a technical question regarding the flooding of oil using the new fuel pump design. How much oil will be required in the engine? (The GM's already require a decent amount) I assume the oil will need to be disposed of after each meeting? It would be no good if the cost of servicing is reduced but the running costs increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 No it's not but it won't be long before they have a lot of different set ups for the Gerhard like they do the others so 'tuning' would be more expensive to make up for the servicing is my guess. There will still be riders thinking they want a 'fresh' motor every other meeting and willing/able to pay for it as well. I am sure your right a "wise man" said to me when he saw the Street Conversion" this will not be good for speedway, how true those words were all those years ago :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 How many engines did Button and Alonso use last season, better tell Honda they're using the wrong oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Just ultra sceptical when it comes to people having the answer to Speedways problems, without looking after themselves very nicely in the process, just thinking of all those meetings saved by the dirt deflectors. Briggs and few other old boys , have been leeching off speedway for years . bit of a difference here Marcel Gerhard is not a member of the old boys club ,so his engine will have to stand or fall on it's own merit rather than be forced onto the sport by the" Authorities " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Not sure about being 'forced' on, more like in collusion with, and for mutual benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 reliability in formula one this past season has been at an all time high amongst most of the teams think honda have suffered due to the no testing rule, what a bloody stupid rule allegedly brought in to save money, one grenaded engine probably blows that budget out of the window. dont think an oil change after every meeting will be needed a question does anybody know a source in the uk for JB German oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Not sure about being 'forced' on, more like in collusion with, and for mutual benefit. Agree with that , Briggs now has the secret police . checking his pension scheme at meetings . claiming that copies at 1/3 rd of the price are inferior and dangerous , if you cut a piece of 4 mm Pvc from a large strip from a flexible door for forklifts , how can that be dangerous it;s exactly the same stuff as his just doesnt cost £45 and doesnt have his name on ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Christmas must be if a Briggo air fence gets damaged beyond repair by a dirt deflector that also gets wrecked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Agree with that , Briggs now has the secret police . checking his pension scheme at meetings . claiming that copies at 1/3 rd of the price are inferior and dangerous , if you cut a piece of 4 mm Pvc from a large strip from a flexible door for forklifts , how can that be dangerous it;s exactly the same stuff as his just doesnt cost £45 and doesnt have his name on ? PATHETIC ... anyone can make a dirt deflector or adf for that matter and as long as it meets FIM regulations get it homologated. Your antagonism which borders of hatred of all things Briggs is plain to see and always has been. Very sad. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 PATHETIC ... anyone can make a dirt deflector or adf for that matter and as long as it meets FIM regulations get it homologated. Your antagonism which borders of hatred of all things Briggs is plain to see and always has been. Very sad. This post says far more about you than it says about me , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remembertheracers Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Both the dirt deflector and air fences have been good for riders as well as Barry Briggs. I'm with Mr Rising on this one. This post says far more about you than it says about me , 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 This post says far more about you than it says about me , I understand Phil Risings answer, but I don't understand yours 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Both the dirt deflector and air fences have been good for riders as well as Barry Briggs. I'm with Mr Rising on this one. you are/were a rider then I take it . and never objected to paying 3 times as much as something is worth for something that has no purpose . now explain to me the benefit of a dirt deflector and then show me any example of those benefits . shale still flies over the fence and advertisng banners , riders still get filled in and meetings still get rained off because the track is unsafe . you show me an example of something worthwhile and I'll show you an example of the harm they have caused , Oh by the way can you explain why after exhaustive testing before product placement , air fences are no longer used on the straights , I understand Phil Risings answer, but I don't understand yours then post something about the speedway mafia , and see what happens . then you'll understand 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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