orion Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Kenneth would replace Niels Rory replace Kenneth Robert replaces Rory Nicklas replaces Robert Lewis replaces Nicklas Ash replaces Lewis Tom Stokes steps up to cover Ash. Yes the team is weaker, but THAT SHOULD DISSUADE TEAMS FROM TRYING TO FIDDLE THE SYSTEM. In the rare occasions when someone misses a flight, or is genuinely sick, then maybe the remaining riders will step up to see if they can cover him? I'd still turn up to see my weakened team of underdogs try?!? Gives a young local lad a chance too. Another fan with zero idea about the money side of the sport . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Kenneth would replace Niels Rory replace Kenneth Robert replaces Rory Nicklas replaces Robert Lewis replaces Nicklas Ash replaces Lewis Tom Stokes steps up to cover Ash. Yes the team is weaker, but THAT SHOULD DISSUADE TEAMS FROM TRYING TO FIDDLE THE SYSTEM. In the rare occasions when someone misses a flight, or is genuinely sick, then maybe the remaining riders will step up to see if they can cover him? I'd still turn up to see my weakened team of underdogs try?!? Gives a young local lad a chance too. So basically Tom Stokes is replacing NKI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Don't teams have a number 8? If so, just pop them in at reserve and bump up everyone the order, it's not hard. "Oh no that might mean that a second string has to ride as 3rd heat leader" Big deal, that's the rub, I'm pretty sure a plucky second string rider like Chris Holder or Davey Watt or Peter Karlsson could step up........ : ) We had something similar years ago, but that was done on a like for like basis. If the two teams against each other were each a rider short then the No 8's filled the spaces. But trying to compare now to years ago is like chalk and cheese. The problems surrounding speedway now is so deep rooted, the only way to resurrect the sport is to start again. The suggestion of a squad system in a non-starter. The promoters don't have the finance to implement it, there isn't the quantity or quality of riders available, plus the fans wouldn't be able to afford to go anyway. The format now employed in the Elite league has in effect reduce the importance of the top rider and the promoter must be questioning why do we need this expense when the EDR is now equally important and far cheaper. We have many posters on here who say, they're supporters, yet don't go to watch meetings. If the sport cannot persuade them to go, than what chance is there for attracting new supporters. No we need to start again with New rules, New ideas, New format, lets do away with guests, and RR; Lets bring the cost down to £10.00 a go, Lets have smaller teams and less Double uppers. WE need people through the turnstiles and to do that we need rules set in stone and competitive racing at a cost they can afford. Until that time we will just have to continue banging our heads against a brick wall. Another fan with zero idea about the money side of the sport . Comments like that don't help. I like his idea.......... .As much as Niels is loved at Lynn speedway, I'm sure if he wasn't available, the attendance figures might drop, just a bit, but nothing that would dent the so-called cost of the promotions..... The problems are far deeper than whether your star rider is missing..... I go to many venues, and every place I go to, the attendance is poor. I wonder how it has survived this long already....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) I think I've just had a brainwave. Instead of Stokes effectively replacing Niels how about a system where all of the riders below Niels in the averages could take one of his rides. That will have much less of a detrimental affect on the team than the difference in class between a number one and a number eight. Bet no-one ever thought of that. You could call it rider replacement. Edited May 19, 2015 by Aces51 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think I've just had a brainwave. Instead of Stores effectively replacing Niels how about a system where all of the riders below Niels in the averages could take one of his rides. That will have much less of a detrimental affect on the team than the difference in class between a number one and a number eight. Bet no-one ever thought of that. You could call it rider replacement. Genius. Why has nobody ever thought of this? And you know what, Stokes could also be there, he could be the 8th man in effect. He could, if the club choose to, have one of Niels rides. As the 8th man he could be called the #8 for official purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think between us we've cracked it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 We had something similar years ago, but that was done on a like for like basis. If the two teams against each other were each a rider short then the No 8's filled the spaces. But trying to compare now to years ago is like chalk and cheese. The problems surrounding speedway now is so deep rooted, the only way to resurrect the sport is to start again. The suggestion of a squad system in a non-starter. The promoters don't have the finance to implement it, there isn't the quantity or quality of riders available, plus the fans wouldn't be able to afford to go anyway. The format now employed in the Elite league has in effect reduce the importance of the top rider and the promoter must be questioning why do we need this expense when the EDR is now equally important and far cheaper. We have many posters on here who say, they're supporters, yet don't go to watch meetings. If the sport cannot persuade them to go, than what chance is there for attracting new supporters. No we need to start again with New rules, New ideas, New format, lets do away with guests, and RR; Lets bring the cost down to £10.00 a go, Lets have smaller teams and less Double uppers. WE need people through the turnstiles and to do that we need rules set in stone and competitive racing at a cost they can afford. Until that time we will just have to continue banging our heads against a brick wall. Comments like that don't help. I like his idea.......... .As much as Niels is loved at Lynn speedway, I'm sure if he wasn't available, the attendance figures might drop, just a bit, but nothing that would dent the so-called cost of the promotions..... The problems are far deeper than whether your star rider is missing..... I go to many venues, and every place I go to, the attendance is poor. I wonder how it has survived this long already....... Yet again a post will little idea about the money side of the sport ....the moment you tell people stokes is replacing puk the crowd will drop no doubt below the break even figure the side then gets beat meaning less come the next week wtc ...see this is another problem with die hards who just think people turn up week in week out no matter who is riding because they do . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 As orion says there are no easy answers. I like the idea of a guest pool of riders who don't race over here, if enough can be encouraged to sign up to the idea it could work. I also think there are enough riders in the PL who could be part of an EL squad eg R Worrall, Kurtz, Jakobsen, Tungate, Manzares, Lindgren, Bjerre, Hansen etc etc. Somehow we need to get away from riders guesting when they already have an EL team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Yet again a post will little idea about the money side of the sport ....the moment you tell people stokes is replacing puk the crowd will drop no doubt below the break even figure the side then gets beat meaning less come the next week wtc ...see this is another problem with die hards who just think people turn up week in week out no matter who is riding because they do . I've always been strange but I would far rather watch a team that is actually "mine" even tho missing the no 1 than constantly watch different guests. My 3 league squad system wouldn't mean replacing just the one rider. If NKI is missing you could replace him and Porsing for instance with 2 in form PL rider as long as you don't exceed the points limit. OK it would have financial implications for riders but it would work both ways with Porsing replacing the PL no 1 if needed. I' m sure lots of you will pick faults...that's fine but at least I'm trying to find a solution lol. Edited May 19, 2015 by Star Lady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I've always been strange but I would far rather watch a team that is actually "mine" even tho missing the no 1 than constantly watch different guests. My 3 league squad system wouldn't mean replacing just the one rider. If NKI is missing you could replace him and Porsing for instance with 2 in form PL rider as long as you don't exceed the points limit. OK it would have financial implications for riders but it would work both ways with Porsing replacing the PL no 1 if needed. I' m sure lots of you will pick faults...that's fine but at least I'm trying to find a solution lol. No problem ..I would love to see a squad system and rules being stuck to rather than guests and rules being broken but you have to get the balance right with the understanding that people who run speedway clubs have to at least break even . Sadly we got people who think the same amount people will still turn no matter who is riding or don't understand that Speedway is a business as well as a sport . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Yet again a post will little idea about the money side of the sport ....the moment you tell people stokes is replacing puk the crowd will drop no doubt below the break even figure the side then gets beat meaning less come the next week wtc ...see this is another problem with die hards who just think people turn up week in week out no matter who is riding because they do . Why be so personal, I can assure you I have more idea about finance then most and am fully aware of the cost implications. The main Problem with our sport centres around money and it is my belief that the sport in this country cant afford the cost of the top riders.....If you are that fickle that you will only support your team if they are winning, than there little chance of any sport being viable. There can only be one winner, but the rest of the people and teams still warrants your support. As a seasoned ' DIE-HARD ' sport supporter it makes little difference to me whether the team I support win or lose. Whether it be Moto GP, F1; Football, Moto-cross, or speedway I make a point of enjoying all the activities I go to.. My team doesn't have to win for me to enjoy myself. Fortunately I can afford to go and support the sports I like, but at £18.00 for 15min racing, it is a cost that some won't pay. So yes, I'm well aware of the costs, and the implications of the sport................ Probably next time you won't be so judgemental............ Edited May 19, 2015 by GRW123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Why be so personal, I can assure you I have more idea about finance then most and am fully aware of the cost implications. The main Problem with our sport centres around money and it is my belief that the sport in this country cant afford the cost of the top riders.....If you are that fickle that you will only support your team if they are winning, than there little chance of any sport being viable. There can only be one winner, but the rest people and teams warrants your support. As a seasoned ' DIE-HARD ' sport supporter it makes little difference to me whether the team I support win or lose. Whether it be Moto GP, F1; Football, Moto-cross, or speedway I make a point of enjoying all the activities I go to.. My team doesn't have to win for me to enjoy myself. Fortunately I can afford to go and support the sports I like, but at £18.00 for 15min racing, it is a cost that some won't pay. So yes, I'm well aware of the costs, and the implications of the sport................ Probably next time you won't be so judgemental............ Yet again you show little understanding of modern sport on the modern fan ....people sadly are fickle in this day and age and your logic that you go every week no matter who is riding cuts no ice when it comes to trying to balance the books . Next week Swindon will ride cov and under the rules really should not get a guest for Killer meaing a pl rider should take his place ...what of course that's would mean is about 150 -300 of these fickle fans you go on about are unlikely to turn up meaning a large amount of money will be lost . of course in your world and using your logic the crowd will be the same . Edited May 19, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Yet again you show little understanding of modern sport on the modern fan ....people sadly are fickle in this day and age and your logic that you go every week no matter who is riding cuts no ice when it comes to trying to balance the books . Next week Swindon will ride cov and under the rules really should not get a guest for Killer meaing a pl rider should take his place ...what of course that's would mean is about 150 -300 of these fickle fans you go on about are unlikely to turn up meaning a large amount of money will be lost . of course in your world and using your logic the crowd will be the same . There you go again, If you have 300 people, only going to watch Killer, then the rest can't be very good......... No wonder the sport is on its knees..... What happens to teams in the PL and National Leagues. They haven't got star riders, I wonder what those supporter go to watch....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 The sport of speedway in this country is on a fine point of going bankrupt. Most of the teams are spending above and beyond on what they are getting through the gate, to pay the top riders wages and before very long unless they adopt a new apraoch to the sport, they clubs will die a death. Is it time for the B.P.S.A to sit down for once and take a proper look at the way things really are. We have come to a stage now, with riders riding for so many clubs at home and abroud that, week in week out riders are missing from teams, A lot of the time it is the top riders who have contracts that they have to follow to ride for their overseas club or in their countries competitions which leaves the clubs looking for guest riders to cover. Above and beyound the speedway fans are strting to get exreamly fed up with having to watch a team, with rider changes faster than magic roundabout. Have we come to the stage where the leagues have got to be disbanded and a new league introduced. That uses mainly home grown talent or young EU riders that are willing to ride over hear for a full season, but not the rubbish that we have had to put up with in the past. At least makes the clubs and teams competative and bring the admission down to suit what we the paying public get to watch. It will still be our sport of speedway, without the big names and the cost of employing and bringing these riders over. It is crippling many clubs as we have seen with thye clubs that have folded, or the ones that have dropped down the leagues just to keep in business, they are the ones that have come to their senses and have seen that they can no longer go on paying stuppid amounts of money for the worlds top riders, just to make the clubs look good. If something is not done soon all we will have left of the sport is just a number of amatur clubs as it was when speedway first strted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) What happens to teams in the PL and National Leagues. They haven't got star riders, I wonder what those supporter go to watch....... Of course the Pl and Nl have star riders ...The fans at that level would look at Cook as one of the stars and they would apply to the best riders at Nl ...of course if you start replacing Cook with a junior the % in the drop of crowd levels would be the same . Edited May 19, 2015 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Of course the Pl and Nl have star riders ...The fans at that level would look at Cook as one of the stars and they would apply to the best riders at Nl ...of course if you start replacing Cook with a junior the % in the drop of crowd levels would be the same . You are of, but one thought , that the sport is reliant on Star riders. Of cause they are important but not as much as you are trying to say. If a top rider was missing from a meeting, sure it would effect the gate, but not by that much, and surely not to make the meeting unviable. Without the top rider the costs involved would drop, so the BEP ( Break Evan Point) would mean lower numbers. so not necessary a disaster. You mention Cock. In Edinburgh he is a Star rider, at Belle Vue he is a little fish, but he still the same talent. People will always be attracted to what's on offer and no doubt wherever you ride supporter will support you... You obviously give my opinions scant regard, and imply I know nothing of the seriousness our sport is in. What I do know is, if wasn't for us, Die-hard fans that remains, speedway would be dead and buried. For Promoters to try and second guess when the 'Modern Day' supporter will decide, if and when he may go, would be so disastrous, he would soon give it up. Everyone knows speedway is existing on a lifeline through sponsorship that enables the books to be balanced, But if the crowds stop going, then the sponsors will cease as well. Getting bums on seats is the most important aspect on any sport.........with or with stars riders...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 The fact remains though that if you replace a number one rider with a three pointer for any given match it is likely to affect the crowd in a negative way. Maybe if speedway clubs were making large profits it could happen but no club can afford one or two poor attendances in the current climate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 The fact remains though that if you replace a number one rider with a three pointer for any given match it is likely to affect the crowd in a negative way. Maybe if speedway clubs were making large profits it could happen but no club can afford one or two poor attendances in the current climate. Nobody in planning to replace a number 1 with a 3 pointer. it was merely mentioned as an example of using home riders instead of the dreaded guests and RR's. Attendances are very hard to predict, I know for a fact that Lynn's first 3 matches failed to reach those BEP figures, but the fourth was very good. In the those first 3 fixtures, not only did we have all our star riders but so did the opposition as well, with plenty of SGP experience on show, but it made little difference to the attendance figures. Come the fourth meeting, the support was well above the BEP and that was put down to the weather. a lovely warm sunny evening made all the difference. Posters go on about the importance of seeing top riders, and show little support for the team as a whole, but when promoters try to stage Individual meetings the public don't want to know. I seems to me the public don't know what they what to watch........ I sympathise with every promoter who puts his head on the line in the pursuit of retaining a sport, that even it's own supporter don't go overboard about......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Attendances are very hard to predict, I know for a fact that Lynn's first 3 matches failed to reach those BEP figures, but the fourth was very good. In the those first 3 fixtures, not only did we have all our star riders but so did the opposition as well, with plenty of SGP experience on show, but it made little difference to the attendance figures. Come the fourth meeting, the support was well above the BEP and that was put down to the weather. a lovely warm sunny evening made all the difference. Of course there are many factors that may help bring in a crowd . But the fact is if during the day if people find out number one is or such like is replaced by say a six point pl rider then it will have an effect on the crowd . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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