Stoke V Cradey Koc Quater Final1st Leg

[TMW]

I actually think Dave Tattum was the short-sighted one (the Specsavers metaphor would be appropriate there) when he took the team from PL into NL rather than addressing the real issues /quote]

 

Now we are getting to the bottom of the problem. The supporters may be able to feedback on conditions such as; track, length of meeting, even rider performance but you can't dictate League, opening times etc any more than I can tell Tesco where they can and can't open stores that is business plan and you can choose to go with it or boycott. What's to say a new promoter would do what you tell them and go PL they may find it more cost effective and carry on NL ala Birmingham

[TheCookster]

I actually think Dave Tattum was the short-sighted one (the Specsavers metaphor would be appropriate there) when he took the team from PL into NL rather than addressing the real issues /quote]

 

Now we are getting to the bottom of the problem. The supporters may be able to feedback on conditions such as; track, length of meeting, even rider performance but you can't dictate League, opening times etc any more than I can tell Tesco where they can and can't open stores that is business plan and you can choose to go with it or boycott. What's to say a new promoter would do what you tell them and go PL they may find it more cost effective and carry on NL ala Birmingham

 

They may indeed. Any new promoter would be judged on their merits - and I don't just mean by me, but by everybody.

 

Many hundreds of supporters have stopped going through the turnstiles at Stoke over the years as they have each reached their individual saturation point with the failings of the Tattum promotion. I doubt that any of them stopped going due to one single thing, but rather as a culmination of many.

 

A new promotion would not find it easy to turn back the tide of many years of neglect by the present incumbent, but with hard work and a better attitude, may well find that people may be prepared to sample their wares.

[speedibee]

 

They may indeed. Any new promoter would be judged on their merits - and I don't just mean by me, but by everybody.

 

Many hundreds of supporters have stopped going through the turnstiles at Stoke over the years as they have each reached their individual saturation point with the failings of the Tattum promotion. I doubt that any of them stopped going due to one single thing, but rather as a culmination of many.

 

A new promotion would not find it easy to turn back the tide of many years of neglect by the present incumbent, but with hard work and a better attitude, may well find that people may be prepared to sample their wares.

many hundreds have stopped going through the turnstiles at all tracks , In all leagues . this is applies whether the current incumbent is popular or not and whether the team are doing well or not . I don't know the ins and outs of Stoke speedway so I speak as a complete outsider with no axe to grind , but i do know that Dave Tattum is well down the wealth scale in terms of speedway promoters , If the Dugards and Moles of this world think that running a national league team in the current financial climate makes sense , and if Cradley with their massive support and bank balance are happy wheres the problem . I can only assume that a proportion of Stoke fans would rather not have a team to support, than see the current one racing each week , and hope for a new horizon . I can't see tattum going anywhere . but if he chooses not to run speedway any more because of all the hassle then you'll be the losers , because he will not be handing the reigns over to someone else to run speedway there . so either go along and support your team . or stay away and spend your cash elsewhere , leave the remaining few supporters to watch Stoke speedway go through it's death throes . then when it's finished , you can all say I told you so ..

[TheCookster]

many hundreds have stopped going through the turnstiles at all tracks , In all leagues . this is applies whether the current incumbent is popular or not and whether the team are doing well or not . I don't know the ins and outs of Stoke speedway so I speak as a complete outsider with no axe to grind , but i do know that Dave Tattum is well down the wealth scale in terms of speedway promoters , If the Dugards and Moles of this world think that running a national league team in the current financial climate makes sense , and if Cradley with their massive support and bank balance are happy wheres the problem . I can only assume that a proportion of Stoke fans would rather not have a team to support, than see the current one racing each week , and hope for a new horizon . I can't see tattum going anywhere . but if he chooses not to run speedway any more because of all the hassle then you'll be the losers , because he will not be handing the reigns over to someone else to run speedway there . so either go along and support your team . or stay away and spend your cash elsewhere , leave the remaining few supporters to watch Stoke speedway go through it's death throes . then when it's finished , you can all say I told you so ..

 

Far from it. If that were to happen I would be one of the ones prepared to put his money where his mouth is and to look to form a consortium to run the speedway at Stoke.

[Stoke Potter]

the best way for Dave Tattum to make money out of Stoke speedway , is to close it down and rent the stadium for stock cars or bangers .

 

Just to correct a potential misunderstanding, the stadium is not owned by Dave Tattum. It is owned by the Corbett family.

[TMW]

 

Far from it. If that were to happen I would be one of the ones prepared to put his money where his mouth is and to look to form a consortium to run the speedway at Stoke.

So you have a vested interest in him walking away. Well you may get some back up if you go onto the FB page. Not sure how many come on here.

[TheCookster]

So you have a vested interest in him walking away. Well you may get some back up if you go onto the FB page. Not sure how many come on her

 

The only "vested interest" I have in seeing him walk away is an improvement in the way that Stoke speedway is run and presented. If I were ever to be involved in a consortium running Stoke speedway, I would be quite happy for it to be run along the lines of a non-profit making co-operative, so it is not something borne out of potential personal financial gain, as I suspect you were implying.

 

Dave Tattum has known for some years that there are people potentially interested in buying out the promotion and he had a far more saleable product 5-6 years ago than he has now,

Edited May 19, 2015 by TheCookster

[TMW]

 

The only "vested interest" I have in seeing him walk away is an improvement in the way that Stoke speedway is run and presented. If I were ever to be involved in a consortium running Stoke speedway, I would be quite happy for it to be run along the lines of a non-profit making co-operative, so it is not something borne out of potential personal financial gain, as I suspect you were implying.

 

Dave Tattum has known for some years that there are people potentially interested in buying out the promotion and he had a far more saleable product 5-6 years ago than he has now,

No I wasn't implying Financial gain but your objection to the current promotion maybe slighlty biased.

[TheCookster]

No I wasn't implying Financial gain but your objection to the current promotion maybe slighlty biased.

 

Apologies for wrongly picking up on that implication then TMW.

 

My objection to the current promotion is not based on prejudicial bias, but rather on a long list of failings that I have experienced over many years as a paying customer and supporter,

 

Before I was ever born, my parents used to go to the old stadium in Hanley. I first went to watch Stoke speedway (or strictly speaking Chesterton as it was then) in 1973, as an 8 year old.

 

As Vog, Oldsparky and others may well be able to testify, I rarely missed a home fixture (usually in attendance with my son) and I was one of (if not the) most frequent traveller to away meetings ... even to the point, on occasion, of being the only Stoke supporter in the stadium (with the exception of the riders and manager, obviously!). I have witnessed all of the shortcomings, constant and repeated let downs, excuses and false dawns during my time on the terraces at Loomer Road.

 

As I have stated on a separate thread already, my personal saturation point came when Dave Tattum announced that he had developed a "5-year plan" that would see him take the team out of the Premier League and into the National League for that period. Even at that point, I might have still been prepared to go along, if it had been handled properly and with empathy, as the Dugards managed to do at Eastbourne. However, as usual, this being the Tattum promotion, it wasn't. I stated publicly then on the Stoke forum that I would return to watch Stoke at the end of the "5-year plan" when Stoke were once again in the Premier League. I suspect that will not happen, but if it does, I will be true to my word.

 

So, TWW, sad though it is, there is nothing that I say on here about Stoke speedway under the Tattum promotion that is based on unsubstantiated, prejudicial bias, but only things based on a series of fact-based shortcomings that I and others have been witness to over the years. Speedway deserves better - and, in particular, Stoke speedway and its supporters deserve better.

[TMW]

 

Apologies for wrongly picking up on that implication then TMW.

 

My objection to the current promotion is not based on prejudicial bias, but rather on a long list of failings that I have experienced over many years as a paying customer and supporter,

 

Before I was ever born, my parents used to go to the old stadium in Hanley. I first went to watch Stoke speedway (or strictly speaking Chesterton as it was then) in 1973, as an 8 year old.

 

As Vog, Oldsparky and others may well be able to testify, I rarely missed a home fixture (usually in attendance with my son) and I was one of (if not the) most frequent traveller to away meetings ... even to the point, on occasion, of being the only Stoke supporter in the stadium (with the exception of the riders and manager, obviously!). I have witnessed all of the shortcomings, constant and repeated let downs, excuses and false dawns during my time on the terraces at Loomer Road.

 

As I have stated on a separate thread already, my personal saturation point came when Dave Tattum announced that he had developed a "5-year plan" that would see him take the team out of the Premier League and into the National League for that period. Even at that point, I might have still been prepared to go along, if it had been handled properly and with empathy, as the Dugards managed to do at Eastbourne. However, as usual, this being the Tattum promotion, it wasn't. I stated publicly then on the Stoke forum that I would return to watch Stoke at the end of the "5-year plan" when Stoke were once again in the Premier League. I suspect that will not happen, but if it does, I will be true to my word.

 

So, TWW, sad though it is, there is nothing that I say on here about Stoke speedway under the Tattum promotion that is based on unsubstantiated, prejudicial bias, but only things based on a series of fact-based shortcomings that I and others have been witness to over the years. Speedway deserves better - and, in particular, Stoke speedway and its supporters deserve better.

I don't normally engage in this kind of thing. Thanks for clearing that up. I hope things change for you soon onr way or another. It is sad when people feel they can't enjoy their team anymore. Tbh I just take it for what it is an evenings entertainment so I struggle with that concept.

 

I don't take my speedway as seriously as some clearly.

 

At least the supporters can take comfort in knowing if the current promoter decided to jack itvin then there is a safety net waiting in the wings

 

One thing I will say being from Leicester is big ideas and fancy stadiums don't necessarily make fans any happier

Edited May 19, 2015 by TMW

[teddy2706]

TMW, I sympathise with your well made point about speedway in Leicester, on only the second meeting at Beaumont I met a pleasant father and son duo who had never been to any speedway match anywhere between Blackbird rd. closing and Beaumont opening. Their reason? "Why would we want to watch any team other than Leicester?".

 

Now, they were/are dyed in the wool Leicester fans, rather like Vog, The Cookster, Lee and Boozer are dyed in the wool Stoke speedway supporters, I on the other hand have followed two teams whose tracks sadly closed (not nice) and migrated to Stoke for a while.

As a Staffordshire lad I really want Stoke speedway to flourish, bloom and be the top of the pile, but cannot bear to go and watch there anymore for many reasons, all of which could be laid at the door of the promotion.

 

I remember another person with a family interest in the Stoke team shouting at us all on the Stoke Forum a few years ago for being negative, but then leaving forum in disgust.

He is now the first to admit that he was wrong.

Stoke speedway have a massive opportunity for Corporate sponsorship from a huge multi-national local company, yet continue to soldier on in a stadium needing an overdue facelift, a huge injection of money and more importantly an injection of energy and enthusiasm because that would appear to be badly lacking.

 

It is no secret to Mr. Vasey at least who I am and a few years ago I offered, free of charge, to survey and action a plan to ensure no further losses of power occured at Loomer, with a view to possibly returning to mains electricity at an affordable rate if deemed appropriate.

I also offered to produce, at cost, emergency trackside lighting to ensure rider safety in the event of a power failure.

 

The offer was not taken up, indeed no reply was received at all.

[TMW]

TMW, I sympathise with your well made point about speedway in Leicester, on only the second meeting at Beaumont I met a pleasant father and son duo who had never been to any speedway match anywhere between Blackbird rd. closing and Beaumont opening. Their reason? "Why would we want to watch any team other than Leicester?".

 

Now, they were/are dyed in the wool Leicester fans, rather like Vog, The Cookster, Lee and Boozer are dyed in the wool Stoke speedway supporters, I on the other hand have followed two teams whose tracks sadly closed (not nice) and migrated to Stoke for a while.

As a Staffordshire lad I really want Stoke speedway to flourish, bloom and be the top of the pile, but cannot bear to go and watch there anymore for many reasons, all of which could be laid at the door of the promotion.

 

I remember another person with a family interest in the Stoke team shouting at us all on the Stoke Forum a few years ago for being negative, but then leaving forum in disgust.

He is now the first to admit that he was wrong.

Stoke speedway have a massive opportunity for Corporate sponsorship from a huge multi-national local company, yet continue to soldier on in a stadium needing an overdue facelift, a huge injection of money and more importantly an injection of energy and enthusiasm because that would appear to be badly lacking.

 

It is no secret to Mr. Vasey at least who I am and a few years ago I offered, free of charge, to survey and action a plan to ensure no further losses of power occured at Loomer, with a view to possibly returning to mains electricity at an affordable rate if deemed appropriate.

I also offered to produce, at cost, emergency trackside lighting to ensure rider safety in the event of a power failure.

 

The offer was not taken up, indeed no reply was received at all.

Not shouting at anyone. I would never do that it isn't my place and I certainly have no right to. My point was what makes anyone think that new owners would go PL?. I'm not the any speedway is better than no speedway gang. I just enjoy my meetings and hate to think of others out there not being able to do just that but I respect their right and their opinion. As you know the Lions threads are littered with anti establishment posts so it's not necessarily a new stadium and top flight team Edited May 20, 2015 by TMW

[griffo]

If you are prepared to accept the product, fine, go ahead and attend.

If you aren't, then do as many of us do and stay away.

 

Someone very well known at Stoke speedway has now named exiled Stoke Speedway supporters as Narkers.

As I am not from Stoke, I cannot say what this means locally, but where I come from a Nark means a sneak or a spy.

An unlikely description for people who speak their minds.

 

To the best of my knowledge, no attempt has been made from either promotion or "Narkers" to build bridges and attempt to reconcile the differences between them.

Until that happens, I think threads in this vein will continue.

 

Sparky it means some one that is always moaning it was the same on the Old Unnoficial Stoke Forum in the end there were just a few of the same people moaning about the same things over and over till in the end they were the only ones on the site all or the rest had give up on it and a good site closed If they said they were not going to Stoke for this reason or another be it because of the Promoter or because the drop down to NL then don't go its their perogotive just get on with life don't waste your time looking out for things that go wrong in something your not interested in, this Topic was entitled Stoke vs Cradley I think there was 1 or maybe 2 comments on the match the rest one person taking two pages to Nark on about his dislikes

[TheCookster]

You've lost me there, Griffo. I have just read back through the whole thread and I can't see 'two pages' full of 'one person' "narking" on about his / her dislikes.

[griffo]

You've lost me there, Griffo. I have just read back through the whole thread and I can't see 'two pages' full of 'one person' "narking" on about his / her dislikes.

You have got to admit Cookster you have been the main contender with is it 8 replies on why you don't go or what you think about the situations going on down at the stadium all I was saying the lead was Stoke vs Cradley and it did not reflect the title as the thread was lost on the First page

[TheCookster]

You have got to admit Cookster you have been the main contender with is it 8 replies on why you don't go or what you think about the situations going on down at the stadium all I was saying the lead was Stoke vs Cradley and it did not reflect the title as the thread was lost on the First page

 

I'm still behind TMW in the number of posts on this thread, Griffo, so, no, I can't claim the title of main contender - and my longest post pales into insignificance compared to Vog's main contribution, so I am well short of taking up two pages on my own.

 

However, the part of your post that hits the nail on the head is that fact that I posted 'replies'. If I am challenged on something I wrote or been asked to explain or justify something then I feel I owe that poster the courtesy of that explanation. Whether we subsequently agree or simply agree to disagree is another matter.

 

Has the thread meandered away from its original title? Yes, it has ... but that is simply the nature of conversation and would be true of the vast majority of threads. I recall quite recently on a thread entitled "Stoke's 5-Year Plan" that someone posted on there talking about how the shape of the Stoke track had been used by Ole Olsen as the basis for Vojens ... completely off topic! I forget now who it was ... oh yes ... it was Griffo! Not having a dig ... just illustrating my point that in responding to others in the course of a thread's conversation it is almost inevitable that the subject matter will move outside the immediate parameters of the original title of the thread.

[teddy2706]

TMW, I didn't mean to infer that your were shouting, I merely intended to make a connection between family members of Stoke riders and opinions of the club, I apologise for not making myself clear.

 

Griffo, I respect both you and your opinions, but if people were moaning about the same thing ad nauseum on Potterzone, maybe the promotion might have attempted to address the things of concern to their customer base?

 

Some of us will remember a night out where a well known personality connected to Stoke Speedway decided the way to build bridges was to shout "What is your problem?" at one of us at least.

As an interested onlooker. it seemed the question was rhetorical and no answer was invited or welcome.

 

Now, some of us Exiles, (or as I now prefer to be called, "Narkers") would dearly love for the whole club to shut down and never exist again.

That isn't my hope for the future of Stoke speedway and I am fairly certain it isn't Cooksters either, but I can't see he or I walking through that gate ever again unless some remarkable changes occur.

[TMW]

TMW, I didn't mean to infer that your were shouting, I merely intended to make a connection between family members of Stoke riders and opinions of the club, I apologise for not making myself clear.

 

 

No problem

 

No my comments don't come from some misguided loyalty to the promotion the point I was making was I have seen too many consumed by bitterness in this sport. I think it's sad you can't enjoy your team. I wasn't commenting on management, politics or set up. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Edited May 22, 2015 by TMW

[Halifaxtiger]

Without Dave Tattum Stoke would no longer be a Speedway. it would be a healthy profit making stock car/ banger track. no problems with the surface because it would be tarmac, no problem with air fences because it would be concrete .Sure there have been problems in the past ,and as a standalone this latest electrical problem is fairly insignificant and was handled in the best manner it could be taking all parties into consideration, but added to previous misfortunes makes great ammunition for those with a grudge , whenever I see or hear of a track suffering a catalogue of disasters however they are caused or created , it always makes me think of Milton Keynes . they had a run of bad luck and incompetence but they and their supporters are no longer suffering from them are they ? . and a similar fate is eagerly awaiting Stoke if the various parties with interest dont put their grievances aside and work together for the greater good .

I'm not so sure that if Tattum left Stoke would close. Word I got from Stoke fans is that some have attempted to take over but have been rebuffed by a ridiculous price.

 

As Vog says, the electrical problems aren't a one off (for which every speedway promotion can or at least should be forgiven). In the past few seasons on my rare (3 or 4 times a year) visits I have seen the same electrical failures, dreadful track surfaces, tea bars running out of food and drink and ambulances failing to arrive. I don't think there's a club in the country that has such a poor record - to quote a friend of mine who refuses to go there 'always some problem, always some lame excuse'.

 

As to working for the greater good, I agree. But there has to be a belief that those assisting the promotion will be listened to (in my experience, any criticism - whether justified or not - is responded to with abuse) and that they will not be taken for granted. The way I see it for things to improve it is for the promotion to change their attitude, not the fans.

but if he chooses not to run speedway any more because of all the hassle then you'll be the losers , because he will not be handing the reigns over to someone else to run speedway there . so either go along and support your team . or stay away and spend your cash elsewhere , leave the remaining few supporters to watch Stoke speedway go through it's death throes . then when it's finished , you can all say I told you so ..

The old black mail trick : use it or lose it.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter how crap the product is, what the managements attitude to the fans is or what value for money you get.

This argument of go or it'll shut down cuts absolutely no ice with me (or, I suspect, most fans). No-one wants Stoke to close but should that be the case pinning the blame on stay away fans is nothing less than nonsense when so many of them are justifiably unhappy with the current set up.

 

It is for a promotion to make their product attractive enough for people to buy. If a team closes and they haven't done that then any responsibility for closure lies fairly and squarely with them.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Halifaxtiger

[gee jay]

Surely can't be much room left for any more nails in that coffin???

the metal is beginning to way more than the wood