The White Knight Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 It was meant as ONE item of explanation, and not necessarily a MAJOR point OK - I still hark back to the "good old days" - and from where I stand (or sit) they WERE good old days At Brandon we had extremely good attendances each and every Saturday (apart for the Stock Car Saturday, when the stadium overflowed!!!!) and we watched out "local heroes" 1965, we had Boocock, Mountford, Lightfoot, France, Cottrell, Owen and Harrison 1968, it was Boocock, France, Cottrell, Owen, Harrison, Hill and Ridley There's another point there too - consistency of team make-up - Mountford was out most of 68 and 69, returning in 70, so from 1965, you could say there was only one line-up change So, fans could really identify with the team members, knew them, met them - it all helps, for fans not only support the sport, or their team, they also support individual riders, and if they're local and consistently appearing, they'll stay on the terraces and in the stands to watch them Look at non-team sports like grasstrack and motocross - the riders have huge individual following, and the value of that should not be lost to speedway One reason the second (and third) halves used to be popular at Brandon was watching up and coming locals having a go I hoped Coventry Storm might be able to follow the local rider route (as per Cottrell, Ridley, Lomas, Booton, Mattocks, Hill, from years gone by) but sadly the make up of the 2015 team is anything but local Journey foreigners flying in (or not) for one season is not the route to establishing a firm supporter base And I agree that the drawcards are not around any more - and that's largely due to television exposure In the "good old days", it was an occasion for Fundin, or Briggs, for example, to appear at Brandon, and if we didn't go, we didn't see them Nowadays, whatever top riders there are within or without the UK, they can be seen week in, week out, on TV, so there's little or no encouragement to pay out to watch them live anymore Imagine the draw Tai Woffinden would have been around the British tracks when reigning World Champion if the only chance you had to seen him was by going to a track and paying your admission money The trouble with speedway is that it's literally run be amateurs. Let me give you an analogy. The company I work for pays millions of pounds to employ professionals to run its IT systems. Now, they could save this money by getting amateurs to design, develop and maintain these systems, but very quickly the systems would become outdated, unreliable and ultimately customers would take their business elsewhere. Speedway uses plucky, but often hapless amateurs to do everything from track preparation to meeting presentation. The argument for this is cost, but as I have displayed above, amateurs often cost more in lost revenue than it would actually cost to employ professionals to do the job properly. TWO absolutely cracking Posts. :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Speedway has lost its true identity. Fans don't relate to their teams, as riders are whizzed up and away to ride for other teams on other nights, even in the same league or different countries. League and team speedway has lost any real interest, many sides now having a feel of a testimonial line-up, rushed together just to serve the latest few speedway folk that can be bothered to put in a show. Right from the first day of the season, one tends to feel most teams are waiting the earliest opportunity to throw points away, weaken, and then set off for a Play-Off slot. Until the Play-Off battles, one tends to believe not all matches are worth winning, as it's possibly best to have some riders off form, dropping averages and then they'll be rewarded by a new team mate, a rider likely to strengthen the side, before the summer sun is past. A true sport is only as worthy as its real ethics, proper racing in speedway case. But now, it seems proper racing is only served in the more important dates, as league speedway is just another mundane office shift for a zero hour intern. Riders should have affinity with the club, so fans can build up a bond with them. Otherwise it won't work, and team speedway will remain on the slide. Every winter we say the same - a rethink and restructure is required. This close season will no doubt be the same. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) And I agree that the drawcards are not around any more - and that's largely due to television exposure In the "good old days", it was an occasion for Fundin, or Briggs, for example, to appear at Brandon, and if we didn't go, we didn't see them Nowadays, whatever top riders there are within or without the UK, they can be seen week in, week out, on TV, so there's little or no encouragement to pay out to watch them live anymore Imagine the draw Tai Woffinden would have been around the British tracks when reigning World Champion if the only chance you had to seen him was by going to a track and paying your admission money You can watch superstars from other sports on tv all the time ....but I doubt it would stop people going to there local ground if say Ronaldo was playing football or MVG was playing Darts down the local pub . in fact there is a school of thought that after watching them on tv your more likely want to watch them in the flesh ...Not sure why people always apply these myths to speedway . Edited May 17, 2015 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Speedway uses plucky, but often hapless amateurs to do everything from track preparation to meeting presentation. The argument for this is cost, but as I have displayed above, amateurs often cost more in lost revenue than it would actually cost to employ professionals to do the job properly. They had a highly paid professional responsible for the track preparation in Warsaw and Tampere and the meetings were hopeless so I don't think thst necessarily supports your argument that professionals are necessarily the answer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 You can watch superstars from other sports on tv all the time ....but I doubt it would stop people going to there local ground if say Ronaldo was playing football or MVG was playing Darts down the local pub . in fact there is a school of thought that after watching them on tv your more likely want to watch them in the flesh ...Not sure why people always apply these myths to speedway .My point was . . . . The only chance to see themAny "mystique" disappears if you've seen them regularly on TV Comparing seeing Real Madrid live with attending a speedway meeting is plain daft Can't comment on darts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 My point was . . . . The only chance to see them Any "mystique" disappears if you've seen them regularly on TV Comparing seeing Real Madrid live with attending a speedway meeting is plain daft Can't comment on darts Not really ...the point is in no other sport does the amount of time someone is on tv affect the crowd so why would it in speedway ..as I said just another myth . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) My niece may only be 6 but part of the excitement for her was going to see the "rider who won trophies" when we went to Coventry vs BV. She got to see Matej Zagar and Chris Harris who had finished 1st and 2nd in that Saturdays GP - she thought it was brilliant she could watch the riders she had seen on the tele. Edited May 17, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 My point was . . . . The only chance to see them Any "mystique" disappears if you've seen them regularly on TV Comparing seeing Real Madrid live with attending a speedway meeting is plain daft Can't comment on darts As others are saying, someone being regularly on tv would increase the desire to see them live. I guess people don't go to concerts to see their favorite band that's on the radio and tv all the time either.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 My point was . . . . The only chance to see them Any "mystique" disappears if you've seen them regularly on TV Comparing seeing Real Madrid live with attending a speedway meeting is plain daft Can't comment on darts i understand your point - perhaps its more pertinent that big names turn up every 3/4 weeks because of the lack of tracks and not once or twice a year when there were 16/17 top flight clubs. when Mauger or Briggs came to town it was a big deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 For the most part promoters do a good job in trying conditions. Health and safety of riders and spectators is always going to be a priority. Unlike football, speedway can not be run in the rain. It is the basic things that could be better managed. Making sure all equipment is provided and functioning, have all the staff needed (paid or not) etc. The least they could do is make sure they have replacements or alternatives in place in the event of malfunction. Limiting delays is important. If promoters dont care, why should the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Must admit my enthusiasm is on the wane.The long delays when it is cold and/or wet are indefensible.Was thinking of taking my son to speedway a few weeks back and lucky I didn't because a bad crash held things up for an hour or so.Now this is unavoidable,but to a newcomer it is just a boring wait......took my girlfriend to speedway a couple of days ago and as a football/speedway fan I am used to dodgy toilets,she was shocked at how bad the womens toilets were,and that was pretty much at the start of the meeting.No knowing how bad they ended up like.But the thing that realy gets on my ** are things like turning up for a meeting and the start being delayed by 90 minutes or more because they have forgotten to book a Doctor.......any by the time they find one willing to give up a sunday afternoon it starts to rain.......... Had a similar experience. Female friends of mine, (first time speedway goers) made the same comments. You cant help mud, however in 2015 you think they could provide modern comfortable plumbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) I believe live speedway on television/internet has helped bring speedway's appeal to its current state. Why move your backside from your comfy couch, especially when until this year) you could see a live match on SKY, watch foreign ones online, and have GPs and whatever thrown in every other weekend. There isn't one particular thing wrong with speedway, just people have different reasons why it isn't as good as it should be. SKY's snipping back on their coverage may well help, but there is still enough speedway out there, if people are still unwilling to venture outdoors to their local track. I know the Elite League is in a sick state, with teams packed full of riders that, with respect to them, are there not through merit, but to keep the promoters' costs down. However, a diluted product (as it is now) brings about a lukewarm response from fans that used to happily pay their monies to see sides packed with stars. You can only fool some people. But where are the crowd pullers? Somebody mentioned Briggs and Mauger. Then there's Penhall and Carter. But who's there right now? Who, if there was an individual meeting at some track, would grab extra fans through the gate, from riders even not racing in Britain, in a country void of many current speedway stars plying their trade - Pedersen, Emil, Hancock? They wouldn't get my juices flowing. A weakened product void of personalities, credit and identity. I genuinely believe speedway's poor state is because fans have been given cheap speedway (through the internet), and obviously wonder why they should spend their cash attending meetings (Finnish GP, for instance). I think there has been a speedway bloat scenario - and fans can take or leave meetings. With the product the way it is now (all over the place) - and British speedway being as weak as Popeye without the spinach - I can't seen an answer. Speedway really deserved so much more. Edited May 18, 2015 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 It's amazing how people concoct theories with absolutely nothing to back it up. Speedway must be defying the odds, the only sport in the world where TV coverage causes nobody to go anymore. Bah! I'm not going to go and watch my favourite team (Wolves/Kings Lynn/Belle Vue etc) because I can watch Zielona Gora v Torun on a stream on Sunday afternoon.... Speedway is one sport where it is far better when actually at the meeting than watching on TV. There are multitudes of reasons why fans are giving up on the sport... it being shown on TV most certainly is NOT one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) It's amazing how people concoct theories with absolutely nothing to back it up. Speedway must be defying the odds, the only sport in the world where TV coverage causes nobody to go anymore. Bah! I'm not going to go and watch my favourite team (Wolves/Kings Lynn/Belle Vue etc) because I can watch Zielona Gora v Torun on a stream on Sunday afternoon.... Speedway is one sport where it is far better when actually at the meeting than watching on TV. There are multitudes of reasons why fans are giving up on the sport... it being shown on TV most certainly is NOT one of them. You try to prove people wrong without reason. Toddle off and read my post above, the second line. Here you are... I'll type it slowly: There... isn't one.... particular thing wrong... with speedway (you still with me?), just... people have different reasons... why it isn't as good as it should be. When SKY become tired of showing speedway, with all the airtime they have, we are in deep deep trouble. Edited May 18, 2015 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 When SKY become tired of showing speedway, with all the airtime they have, we are in deep deep trouble. How are we in deep deep trouble, when based on your argument the TV time is stopping people attending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 How are we in deep deep trouble, when based on your argument the TV time is stopping people attending? Well, whether or not it has a significant adverse effect on attendances is open to conjecture, but I can imagine it would create potentially significant revenue stream issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 How are we in deep deep trouble, when based on your argument the TV time is stopping people attending? The money they have thrown at it for one. How many tracks have been kept afloat because of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Having been a motorbike rider for over 20 years I know how difficult it is to see when the sun is low and directly in front of you.Not sure tinted goggles would be the answer as when you turn out of the sun, would it all seem so dark for a few seconds?Just as dangerous maybe.Not sure your eyes or the goggles can react that fast.To me the answer was a peak on the helmet and to keep my head down as much as poss...... Spot on, tints don't work well in speedway, the sudden and dramatic change in the brightness is just as dangerous... Also, visibility out of modern, full-face, off road helmets is nowhere near as good as the old open face helmets had in the old days, not easy to turn your head and dip out the sun without being able to see in front of you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Spot on, tints don't work well in speedway, the sudden and dramatic change in the brightness is just as dangerous... Also, visibility out of modern, full-face, off road helmets is nowhere near as good as the old open face helmets had in the old days, not easy to turn your head and dip out the sun without being able to see in front of you!! Agree. At 'that' meeting at Newcastle a few weeks ago with Dave Dowling in charge, he wouldn't allow a sun break, despite the riders requesting one. He told them to use tints, but was advised by senior riders that they only work for the one in front and, as you say, the following riders can't see because of the light and shade changes for them behind. He stood his ground, and refused the sun break, but ordered an 'interval' to be taken, without consulting the home promotion. Stubborn or what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Depending which direction the track is facing, will depend on the size of the problem, also if there's no local hills or tall buildings to aid.. Badly effected tracks could put up some sort of light/glare diffusing barriers.... Probable a natural one with fast growing conifers would be environmentally friendly, or a some large, but discreet hoardings, maybe give the hoardings advertising space away free, if that company pays for the hoardings/s surely theres got to be a permanent solution to these problems......?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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