moxey63 Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Just watching the GP and the sparse crowd, made me think that the competitors haven't got the pulling power of years gone. We have winner Nicki and Greg, who at 45 shouldn't be doing as he is and winning two world titles. We are at a stage where riders that are in the line-up haven't really got a chance and are now leaving their peak ,and gone is the wow factor that Crump and Gollob used to offer. I know I'll get slaugherted, but I find it hard sometimes, even thinking that Tai and Holder have won world titles.. when it took Leigh Adams years, just to win a GP Round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 It doesn't help that teams these days are made up almost entirely of journeymen riders, with little or no affection for their club Gone are the days of teams including a number of local riders, home grown riders, whom fans could relate to on and off the track And, of course, there's the self-inflicted increase in guest riders because of the doubling-up situation - I'm all for riders getting as much track time as possible but not where it causes team selection problems week in week out throughout the UK A new blueprint for British speedway is desperately needed - NOW Squads have been mentioned to allow for "star riders" to reappear in our leagues - but squads are just as much needed to obviate the doubling-up absenteeism 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Just watching the GP and the sparse crowd, made me think that the competitors haven't got the pulling power of years gone. We have winner Nicki and Greg, who at 45 shouldn't be doing as he is and winning two world titles. We are at a stage where riders that are in the line-up haven't really got a chance and are now leaving their peak ,and gone is the wow factor that Crump and Gollob used to offer. I know I'll get slaugherted, but I find it hard sometimes, even thinking that Tai and Holder have won world titles.. when it took Leigh Adams years, just to win a GP Round. i totally agree with you, what little excitement the GP's provide for me has gone. Lower grade riders competing on awful tracks are what it's all about nowadays. Will I be going to Cardiff this year, not a chance!I've just noticed there was another power failure at stoke tonight, it must be catching! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) why don't sun affected tracks have 2 starting gates or just relocate the one set Then the riders would be moaning they can't see going into the 3rd/4th bend instead of the 1st/2nd. Did we have all these sun breaks years ago? I don't recall them. .....Brummie Kev.....You mention the sun delays at Kings Lynn but surely rider safety is paramount, so its a bit harsh to criticise that, im sure most fans would understand that. I know you are replying to the person who started the thread but I'm afraid I couldn't put up with a 40 minute delay every time the sun shines so they must be a patient lot at Kings Lynn. When we went a couple of weeks ago this is what happened, but although the sun was shining it was still cold hanging around due to the wind and the delay was enough to put me off going again. If this is a regular thing ~ and with Summer coming up it probably is ~ why not start at 8pm instead of 7.30pm? Also would it not be possible to put some sort of hoarding up on the bend that is affected so there isn't such a long delay? Edited May 16, 2015 by Gemini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) I've just noticed there was another power failure at stoke tonight, it must be catching! Stoke have had that before - to my knowledge, several times. That's along with ambulances not turning up and the SCB apparently getting involved due to the state of the track. Read Vog's (a passionate Stoke fan if ever there was one) excellent comments on the meeting thread. One offs happen. Repeated occurrences should not. Then the riders would be moaning they can't see going into the 3rd/4th bend instead of the 1st/2nd. Did we have all these sun breaks years ago? I don't recall them. Nor do I, Gem. I am sure we can all see the potential risk but if it wasn't dangerous 30 years ago why is it now ? Along with many other aspects of the sport, it puts the paying customers interests secondary when in fact they should be first. Edited May 17, 2015 by Halifaxtiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 It doesn't help that teams these days are made up almost entirely of journeymen riders, with little or no affection for their club Gone are the days of teams including a number of local riders, home grown riders, whom fans could relate to on and off the track And, of course, there's the self-inflicted increase in guest riders because of the doubling-up situation - I'm all for riders getting as much track time as possible but not where it causes team selection problems week in week out throughout the UK A new blueprint for British speedway is desperately needed - NOW Squads have been mentioned to allow for "star riders" to reappear in our leagues - but squads are just as much needed to obviate the doubling-up absenteeism I have to disagree with that a bit, there are several teams in Sweden that have several local riders in their squad. Like Smederna who have Zetterström,Linus Eklöf + a bunch of younger riders, Masarna who have Lindbäck, Anton Rosén, Linus Sundström, Piraterna have Jonas and Daniel Davidsson, Vetlanda have THJ and Peter Ljung, Rospiggarna have Andreas Jonsson, Lejonen have Oliver Berntzon... Does this means that Swedish speedway is flourishing? It does not. On the contrary it has allot of problems and local riders itself doesn't mean that the attendances is sky rocketing or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) Stoke have had that before - to my knowledge, several times. That's along with ambulances not turning up and the SCB apparently getting involved due to the state of the track. Read Vog's (a passionate Stoke fan if ever there was one) excellent comments on the meeting thread. One offs happen. Repeated occurrences should not. Absolutely!!!! Nor do I, Gem. I am sure we can all see the potential risk but if it wasn't dangerous 30 years ago why is it now ? Not wanting to stick up for promoters,but like I mentioned before the EU have clamped down on diving boards,so maybe laws have got tougher.If an accident was caused by being blinded by the sun they might find themselves in big trouble.Things do change from 30 or even 10 years ago.Just look at the Ty Procter situation.That would have been unthinkable 30 years ago......but,they are taking a big chance with the paying public.They know in which direction(or should doif they look at the right website)the sun will shine throughout the year and are just hoping it won't affect them and if it does then the paying public will just have to put up with it and wait,instead of like Gem say's, start later In Denmark they start earlier or later according to the time of year,surely it is possible in the UK? Edited May 17, 2015 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Tinted goggles?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) Tinted goggles?? Having been a motorbike rider for over 20 years I know how difficult it is to see when the sun is low and directly in front of you.Not sure tinted goggles would be the answer as when you turn out of the sun, would it all seem so dark for a few seconds?Just as dangerous maybe.Not sure your eyes or the goggles can react that fast.To me the answer was a peak on the helmet and to keep my head down as much as poss...... Edited May 17, 2015 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlipphlopp Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Actually the EU have put a ban on outdoor swimming pool diving boards that face into the sun as they are dangerous.People can dive off them onto some unsuspecting swimmer underneath having been blinded by the sun............. Must be a myth surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Must be a myth surely. Waiting for Humph to confirm.Maybe he has a next door neighbour who was affected by this ruling? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Must be a myth surely. Can't find a shred of evidence this is actually an EU ruling, and it doesn't sound like something that would be within its competence to have a ruling on anyway. There are European standards for swimming pools and diving boards, but that's a separate body and nothing to do with the EU. There are also similar standards issued in the US and Australia amongst other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Absolutely!!!! Not wanting to stick up for promoters,but like I mentioned before the EU have clamped down on diving boards,so maybe laws have got tougher.If an accident was caused by being blinded by the sun they might find themselves in big trouble.Things do change from 30 or even 10 years ago.Just look at the Ty Procter situation.That would have been unthinkable 30 years ago......but,they are taking a big chance with the paying public.They know in which direction(or should doif they look at the right website)the sun will shine throughout the year and are just hoping it won't affect them and if it does then the paying public will just have to put up with it and wait,instead of like Gem say's, start later In Denmark they start earlier or later according to the time of year,surely it is possible in the UK? I am not sure the sun has changed from 10 years ago ! There is some force in what you are saying, though and I'd agree that start times could be changed. The UKVI clamping down on riders isn't totally new - I think it was in 1980 that Mike Fullerton (a New Zealander) of Berwick was only allowed to ride after representation from an MP and was barred totally in 1981. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Having been a motorbike rider for over 20 years I know how difficult it is to see when the sun is low and directly in front of you.Not sure tinted goggles would be the answer as when you turn out of the sun, would it all seem so dark for a few seconds? Often raced in karting with the sun going down. Tinted visors work perfectly fine in my experience, although become problematic when the light starts fading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 I have to disagree with that a bit, there are several teams in Sweden that have several local riders in their squad. Like Smederna who have Zetterström,Linus Eklöf + a bunch of younger riders, Masarna who have Lindbäck, Anton Rosén, Linus Sundström, Piraterna have Jonas and Daniel Davidsson, Vetlanda have THJ and Peter Ljung, Rospiggarna have Andreas Jonsson, Lejonen have Oliver Berntzon... Does this means that Swedish speedway is flourishing? It does not. On the contrary it has allot of problems and local riders itself doesn't mean that the attendances is sky rocketing or anything like that. It was meant as ONE item of explanation, and not necessarily a MAJOR point OK - I still hark back to the "good old days" - and from where I stand (or sit) they WERE good old days At Brandon we had extremely good attendances each and every Saturday (apart for the Stock Car Saturday, when the stadium overflowed!!!!) and we watched out "local heroes" 1965, we had Boocock, Mountford, Lightfoot, France, Cottrell, Owen and Harrison 1968, it was Boocock, France, Cottrell, Owen, Harrison, Hill and Ridley There's another point there too - consistency of team make-up - Mountford was out most of 68 and 69, returning in 70, so from 1965, you could say there was only one line-up change So, fans could really identify with the team members, knew them, met them - it all helps, for fans not only support the sport, or their team, they also support individual riders, and if they're local and consistently appearing, they'll stay on the terraces and in the stands to watch them Look at non-team sports like grasstrack and motocross - the riders have huge individual following, and the value of that should not be lost to speedway One reason the second (and third) halves used to be popular at Brandon was watching up and coming locals having a go I hoped Coventry Storm might be able to follow the local rider route (as per Cottrell, Ridley, Lomas, Booton, Mattocks, Hill, from years gone by) but sadly the make up of the 2015 team is anything but local Journey foreigners flying in (or not) for one season is not the route to establishing a firm supporter base And I agree that the drawcards are not around any more - and that's largely due to television exposure In the "good old days", it was an occasion for Fundin, or Briggs, for example, to appear at Brandon, and if we didn't go, we didn't see them Nowadays, whatever top riders there are within or without the UK, they can be seen week in, week out, on TV, so there's little or no encouragement to pay out to watch them live anymore Imagine the draw Tai Woffinden would have been around the British tracks when reigning World Champion if the only chance you had to seen him was by going to a track and paying your admission money 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 The trouble with speedway is that it's literally run be amateurs. Let me give you an analogy. The company I work for pays millions of pounds to employ professionals to run its IT systems. Now, they could save this money by getting amateurs to design, develop and maintain these systems, but very quickly the systems would become outdated, unreliable and ultimately customers would take their business elsewhere. Speedway uses plucky, but often hapless amateurs to do everything from track preparation to meeting presentation. The argument for this is cost, but as I have displayed above, amateurs often cost more in lost revenue than it would actually cost to employ professionals to do the job properly. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 The trouble with speedway is that it's literally run be amateurs. Let me give you an analogy. The company I work for pays millions of pounds to employ professionals to run its IT systems. Now, they could save this money by getting amateurs to design, develop and maintain these systems, but very quickly the systems would become outdated, unreliable and ultimately customers would take their business elsewhere. Speedway uses plucky, but often hapless amateurs to do everything from track preparation to meeting presentation. The argument for this is cost, but as I have displayed above, amateurs often cost more in lost revenue than it would actually cost to employ professionals to do the job properly. it's hard to argue with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Can't find a shred of evidence this is actually an EU ruling, and it doesn't sound like something that would be within its competence to have a ruling on anyway. There are European standards for swimming pools and diving boards, but that's a separate body and nothing to do with the EU. There are also similar standards issued in the US and Australia amongst other countries. http://www.fr-online.de/kreis-gross-gerau/dieburg--sprungturm-steht-falsch,1473014,22558408.html Was big news here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 http://www.fr-online.de/kreis-gross-gerau/dieburg--sprungturm-steht-falsch,1473014,22558408.html Was big news here My German is limited, but where does it say anything about it being an EU policy? It just says pan-European policy which could mean anything. Apparently diving boards are supposed to be built south facing in Australia to avoid the sun, so it would seem to be common safety practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) My German is limited, but where does it say anything about it being an EU policy? It just says pan-European policy which could mean anything. Apparently diving boards are supposed to be built south facing in Australia to avoid the sun, so it would seem to be common safety practice. It was at least blamed on the EU in the media and like I said it wasn't a policy 30 years ago,but is now things change.Really it doesn't matter who brought this in,it is fact that it is Europe wide and that is the point I was making.If this is deemed dangerous then riding a speedway bike with 3 other guys alongside you into the sun should also be deemed dangerous.Tha fact is speedway promoters must be pro active about this and not just willy-nilly delay meetings until the sun goes down Edited May 17, 2015 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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