BWitcher Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 slightly facetious reply - for one thing its not 321 if its a joker or golden double or some such crap At Cardiff?? Dear me.. this forum gets worse. Good point - well made. :approve: No it wasn't a good point. It was a totally irrelevant point. The discussion was regarding Cardiff, if you could point to me when there has ever been a tactical ride or a golden double at Cardiff, then it becomes a 'good point'. But, lets go with it for one moment.. are you saying a speedway fan is incapable of doubling 1, 2 or 3? They learn their x2 tables quite young these days. The operative word in your Post is 'most'. Speedway then added some stupid Rules and some people stopped going including me. I wonder if some of the Rule changes has anything to do with falling attendances - I can hear you thinking 'of course not - that's stupid'. I wonder?.................................................... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Hardly as the overwhelming majority of fans who stopped going did so long before any changes to the tac sub rules came in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) But, lets go with it for one moment.. are you saying a speedway fan is incapable of doubling 1, 2 or 3? They learn their x2 tables quite young these days. Yes, and I was taught where to place an apostrophe. Maybe you've been hanging with your four-year-old niece for too long... See me later, after school... Edited May 23, 2015 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) The operative word in your Post is 'most'. Speedway then added some stupid Rules and some people stopped going including me. I wonder if some of the Rule changes has anything to do with falling attendances - I can hear you thinking 'of course not - that's stupid'. I wonder?.................................................... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: As I said Speedway has always had stupid rules even when the crowds were good ...the point being talk about was people saying that one double ride is complex ...in the old days when crowds were massive you could 4 or 5 ts including two in the same race so the race format now if anything is less complex . Edited May 23, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I can't stomach the two throws of the dice rule (Golden Double). For any serious speedway fan, it's akin to seeing your dad in a woman's dress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 As I said Speedway has always had stupid rules even when the crowds were good ...the point being talk about was people saying that one double ride is complex ...in the old days when crowds were massive you could 4 or 5 ts including two in the same race so the race format now if anything is less complex . Technically, we weren't Someone made a false claim they didn't know how to fill in the Cardiff programme.. then another one jumped in saying its more complicated than you think due to the TR. There is no TR at Cardiff at all. You are right of course however, it doesn't make it complicated at all. In fact you could argue it was more complicated with the old Tac sub rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Love how someone says its 3-2-1-0 at Cardiff and people who clearly love to moan say, "not if theres a joker". I have never seen a joker at Cardiff, thus proving some people will moan for moanings sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Technically, we weren't Someone made a false claim they didn't know how to fill in the Cardiff programme.. then another one jumped in saying its more complicated than you think due to the TR. There is no TR at Cardiff at all. You are right of course however, it doesn't make it complicated at all. In fact you could argue it was more complicated with the old Tac sub rule By gum BW - when you get the bit between your teeth............................................................................. :shock: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) The trouble with speedway is that it's literally run be amateurs. Speedway uses plucky, but often hapless amateurs to do everything from track preparation to meeting presentation. The argument for this is cost, but as I have displayed above, amateurs often cost more in lost revenue than it would actually cost to employ professionals to do the job properly. I don't totally agree with the first point because most speedway promoters are very successful businessmen outside the sport. That doesn't necessarily qualify them to be good at running speedway (although the likes of Van Straaten, Silver and Dugard have been involved for decades) but it does suggest they have some considerable knowledge about how a business is run. Your second point is, however, dead right. Some of the amateurs are pretty good and, indeed, have considerable experience in the same role outside speedway. However, many are not and what is undoubtedly true in my opinion is that doing things on the cheap usually works out to be a false economy. There are some who think that track preparation can be entrusted to a bloke that can drive a tractor and travelling round the country you can tell who has an experienced and capable track man and who doesn't. Agree. At 'that' meeting at Newcastle a few weeks ago with Dave Dowling in charge, he wouldn't allow a sun break, despite the riders requesting one. He told them to use tints, but was advised by senior riders that they only work for the one in front and, as you say, the following riders can't see because of the light and shade changes for them behind. He stood his ground, and refused the sun break, but ordered an 'interval' to be taken, without consulting the home promotion. Stubborn or what. The only thing with this is going back 30 years or so I can never remember any meeting being held up because of the sun. Is it the sun that has changed or riders attitudes ? I've never watched Swedish Speedway. If this is true I may well adopt a Team and follow it in the Swedish League. Definitely worth consideration. Glad you mentioned that oldtimer. Thank you. Got some bad news. Sweden has tactical changes (albeit not double points) and play offs. As I said Speedway has always had stupid rules even when the crowds were good ...the point being talk about was people saying that one double ride is complex ...in the old days when crowds were massive you could 4 or 5 ts including two in the same race so the race format now if anything is less complex . This is dead right and a point I have made before. People complain on about tactical rides, guests and points limits. They have all been in force in speedway (in one form or another) for half a century. Personally, I don't regard any of them as stupid. Edited May 24, 2015 by Halifaxtiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 whenever someone comes on here and posits an opinion that, perhaps, all is not as it should be he or she is dubbed moaner. I am one such person - i have opinions and i like to express them on a forum - shock horror! I can even live with the dickheadsmartass replies. If 5,000 were turning up for every EL match and 3,000 for every PL you could justifiably tell me to shut up and go away. However the sport is on the bones of its ass and getting bonier by the year and eventually there will be a crisis. However - lets not discuss anything for fear of being 'negative'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) whenever someone comes on here and posits an opinion that, perhaps, all is not as it should be he or she is dubbed moaner. I am one such person - i have opinions and i like to express them on a forum - shock horror! I can even live with the dickheadsmartass replies. If 5,000 were turning up for every EL match and 3,000 for every PL you could justifiably tell me to shut up and go away. However the sport is on the bones of its ass and getting bonier by the year and eventually there will be a crisis. However - lets not discuss anything for fear of being 'negative'. I certainly believe you're as much entitled to your opinion as anyone and I suspect most others do, too. Nor do I believe that there is a single person on this forum who believes that speedway is perfect and in equally perfect financial health. I don't, and from some of the reports I have heard I genuinely fear for the existence of the Premier League. However, this forum is packed with those who never have a good word to say about the sport and they are almost always those who don't actually even go. Being critical or negative is one thing. Being nothing but that is something else. Edited May 24, 2015 by Halifaxtiger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I certainly believe you're as much entitled to your opinion as anyone and I suspect most others do, too. Nor do I believe that there is a single person on this forum who believes that speedway is perfect and in equally perfect financial health. I don't, and from some of the reports I have heard I genuinely fear for the existence of the Premier League. However, this forum is packed with those who never have a good word to say about the sport and they are almost always those who don't actually even go. Being critical or negative is one thing. Being nothing but that is something else. fair comment - but i'm pretty sure that i personally post ideas about how things might be improved quite a bit of the time - not everyone agrees with me - thats fine - along with probably some nonsense i wish i hadn't said too like most on here. What i feel most though is that i was once obsessed with this sport, i absolutely loved it and i don't feel that way any more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 whenever someone comes on here and posits an opinion that, perhaps, all is not as it should be he or she is dubbed moaner. I am one such person - i have opinions and i like to express them on a forum - shock horror! I can even live with the dickheadsmartass replies. If 5,000 were turning up for every EL match and 3,000 for every PL you could justifiably tell me to shut up and go away. However the sport is on the bones of its ass and getting bonier by the year and eventually there will be a crisis. However - lets not discuss anything for fear of being 'negative'. First all of everyone on here can have an opinion that is what the forum is for . I am sure I have never seen anyone on here say that speedway is in a good state and we all know it has massive problems and is fighting to stay alive . But not sure why we should accept any reason put forward why it is in a bad state like saying it's because the race format is complex when it's clear when the crowds were massive when it was more complex . Do you really expect people except that there is a joker used at Cardiff in on that that is somehow harder to fill in a scorecard etc these days ...if people are going to say things like that on a forum people quite rightly are not going to accept that . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 First all of everyone on here can have an opinion that is what the forum is for . I am sure I have never seen anyone on here say that speedway is in a good state and we all know it has massive problems and is fighting to stay alive . But not sure why we should accept any reason put forward why it is in a bad state like saying it's because the race format is complex when it's clear when the crowds were massive when it was more complex . Do you really expect people except that there is a joker used at Cardiff in on that that is somehow harder to fill in a scorecard etc these days ...if people are going to say things like that on a forum people quite rightly are not going to accept that . nobody accepts (i think you meant to write) there are jokers at Cardiff. And maybe that gentleman did have troubles with the scorecard i dont know yes massive crowds turned up in the past when there were daft rules, meaningless fixtures, etc etc but they aren't now are they? I'd just like to discuss why and i don't care how many negative comments are made on that journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) whenever someone comes on here and posits an opinion that, perhaps, all is not as it should be he or she is dubbed moaner. I am one such person - i have opinions and i like to express them on a forum - shock horror! I can even live with the dickheadsmartass replies. If 5,000 were turning up for every EL match and 3,000 for every PL you could justifiably tell me to shut up and go away. However the sport is on the bones of its ass and getting bonier by the year and eventually there will be a crisis. However - lets not discuss anything for fear of being 'negative'. Anybody is entitled to post an opinion but this is discussion forum and others are entitlled to disagree . As has been pointed out the suggestion that the scoring system in Speedwáy is too complicated cannot be sustained. American Football for example has a far more complex scoring system than Speedwáy but it in terms of crowds and sponsorship it is one of th,e biggest sports in the world. So whatever is keeping the crowds away from Speedwáy, it isn't a scoring system that's too complicate.. Edited May 24, 2015 by E I Addio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 No years replicate your initial ones as a speedway fan. Just a shame views get jaundiced as the ensuing years progress. Newcomers should enjoy today's racing, as it won't get better... unless you grab an old dvd from the 70s or 80s! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Anybody is entitled to post an opinion but this is discussion forum and others are entitlled to disagree . As has been pointed out the suggestion that the scoring system in Speedwáy is too complicated cannot be sustained. American Football for example has a far more complex scoring system than Speedwáy but it in terms of crowds and sponsorship it is one of th,e biggest sports in the world. So whatever is keeping the crowds away from Speedwáy, it isn't a scoring system that's too complicate.. i agree with you - it wasn't me who couldn't fill his programme in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Is it time for a last throw of the dice and revamp it entirely. Say six or five man teams (given the injuries and shortage of riders plus that fact that so many teams are running with guests or R/R) or even go the whole hog and operate on four man teams and each league meeting is a 4TT similar to the way Germany run. Alternatively, split the teams North & South and see if it helps with travelling support and have end of season North versus South (top two from each contest finals in early September. Replace some of the league meetings with Pairs meetings and have a season long British Individual Championship with every track in the Country including NL tracks holding one round. For riders to be eligible to compete they must commit to ride in the UK for a minimum number of meetings in the season (say twenty and these can be league and pairs). Change the meetings to be made up of two/three disciplines - Speedway 500cc and possible 250 or lower and the Short Track and maybe sidecar. The aim here would be to try and attract a more diverse crowd. Just thoughts but something really does have to change otherwise you could see it becoming just a few NL tracks operating and the odd individual meetings. PS Any news on a new home for Coventry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Afraid I wouldn't be interested in Pairs or Individual meetings. With regard to a new home for Coventry the answer is no news and I can't see it happening either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 The only thing with this is going back 30 years or so I can never remember any meeting being held up because of the sun. Is it the sun that has changed or riders attitudes ? Well I think in Kings Lynn's case it could be the change of race night, I'm sure it never used to happen on a Saturday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Well I think in Kings Lynn's case it could be the change of race night, I'm sure it never used to happen on a Saturday. :rofl: I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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