ch958 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 my take on this is that there are so many PL riders who, in the past, would have progressed to the top league. Once, a top scorer in a Div 2 team would generally move up and progressed to Div 1. That progression has slowed considerably and actually the PL is a bit too strong to the extent that NL riders find it difficult to move into PL succesfully. This can be changed with the will to do so and MAY lead to a stronger pool of British riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 my take on this is that there are so many PL riders who, in the past, would have progressed to the top league. Once, a top scorer in a Div 2 team would generally move up and progressed to Div 1. That progression has slowed considerably and actually the PL is a bit too strong to the extent that NL riders find it difficult to move into PL succesfully. This can be changed with the will to do so and MAY lead to a stronger pool of British riders Forgive me, but are you implying that top Premier League Riders should move up to the Elite League against their wishes? Â You are right, of course, that it may lead to an improvement, but I am not sure if the Riders would be too happy with that situation. Â IF that is what you are implying ch958. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Forgive me, but are you implying that top Premier League Riders should move up to the Elite League against their wishes? Â You are right, of course, that it may lead to an improvement, but I am not sure if the Riders would be too happy with that situation. Â IF that is what you are implying ch958. There should be more done to push British riders up. Look at Jason Doyle, decent EL rider but when he was forced to make a decision he become a World class rider and a little over 12 months later is 4th place in the GP series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Forgive me, but are you implying that top Premier League Riders should move up to the Elite League against their wishes? Â You are right, of course, that it may lead to an improvement, but I am not sure if the Riders would be too happy with that situation. Â IF that is what you are implying ch958. Â well you can't force people but in the past, as you know, there was more money to be made in the top division and you had to be there to have a chance of riding for Great Britain, etc. They have to want to go up. Of course there was no doubling down then which i regard as a bad thing personally - you comitted to Div 1. Of course quite a few didn't make it and came back down in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 The whole system is a shambles. The top British riders should be going all out to make improvements, but it seems that they would rather settle for a place in the PL than take a risk at going for the EL, that is if any promoters want to take the risk of using them. Is there any answer to this problem. Doubt it because if they are happy just to stay as they are, then the quality of British riders will never improve to any graet extent. We have the reserve lads, but it is not true EL riding they ride against the same ones they ride in the PL or NL, plus a few second stringers. You have the odd few that are getting the chance, Newman, Garrity etc who are riding agaist some of the top lads. They just are not getting the chances that young British lads where 10 years or so ago. Maybe come next season, we will see them finally move up in the teams and then we will see what they really have. Or not. Hope that when they do move up that they can hold their own and prove that, things needed changing to get some new blood into what has become an old soilers British team, with the same riders being picked that never did any good. This year may see some of those riders finally get the chance, win or lose they will give their best. That is all they can do, if they lose, at least they will have riden against some top riders and there is always another year for them, also with them riding against better oppostion in the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 there is one answer - drastically cut the average limit in PL and there'll be no room for some of the EL boys - harsh but would work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekker Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 The whole system is a shambles. The top British riders should be going all out to make improvements, but it seems that they would rather settle for a place in the PL than take a risk at going for the EL,  Trouble is the EL is too small to make it pay as a professional rider, which means riders take to lower cost PL route. there is one answer - drastically cut the average limit in PL and there'll be no room for some of the EL boys - harsh but would work  More likely see a lot of ppl quit and lower crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Is it time to go back to one big league with the EL and PL joined together. If riders from the PL are not strond enough or can' aford the cost of riding in such a league, then they make it a 2 tier NL I am sure there would be enough teams to make it all viable. Because what we have now is just not working. Far to many teams having to field guest with riders missing for one reason or another, not just injury wise either. The league could be split as said before North and South. With the 4 top clubs for each region going into a run off then a huge end to the seson with the 4 teams 2 from each region having a one off meeting to find the winner of the league's. Bring down the admission fee's, if the top riders don't want to come over, then that is up to them, there would still be some very good speedway to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Is it time to go back to one big league with the EL and PL joined together. If riders from the PL are not strond enough or can' aford the cost of riding in such a league, then they make it a 2 tier NL I am sure there would be enough teams to make it all viable. Because what we have now is just not working. Far to many teams having to field guest with riders missing for one reason or another, not just injury wise either. The league could be split as said before North and South. With the 4 top clubs for each region going into a run off then a huge end to the seson with the 4 teams 2 from each region having a one off meeting to find the winner of the league's. Bring down the admission fee's, if the top riders don't want to come over, then that is up to them, there would still be some very good speedway to see. Â this discussion has been had so many times now. I believe it would work but only at PL level or just above at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) And any Brit with aspirations of being gp quality would have to leave the UK,as the standard would be far too low. And tracks would close due to declining revenues  The solution is to improve the product, not worsen it. And that means improving the whole package.  Edit. This is response to we post, didn't want to quote the whole thing Edited May 22, 2015 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 The whole product is sadly lacking just now, they have got an awful lot of work to do to make speedway the sport it once was with the following that it had, the years have not done it proud. It all started to go down hill from the late 80's onward. They need to come up with some very sound ideas in a hurry if we are not going to lose speedway in this country as we know it. We may be looking at teams made of nothing but young British rider, all riding at amatuer status at the best, in a few years time. Where did it all go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 The whole product is sadly lacking just now, they have got an awful lot of work to do to make speedway the sport it once was with the following that it had, the years have not done it proud. It all started to go down hill from the late 80's onward. They need to come up with some very sound ideas in a hurry if we are not going to lose speedway in this country as we know it. We may be looking at teams made of nothing but young British rider, all riding at amatuer status at the best, in a few years time. Where did it all go wrong. The whole product is sadly lacking, try a visit to OTA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 The whole product is sadly lacking, try a visit to OTA! Sorry but can you tell me what OTA is. Looked it up on the internet and didn't bring anything of any relivance up. Never heard of it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I know we've been over this ground before - several times - but it does seem that we are revisiting 1963/64, when the top league (National League) was dying through falling number of tracks, and the lower league (Provincial League) was reportedly doing decent business and providing good racing  So what happened?  Amalgamation, the creation of the British League, the saviour (then) of the so-called dying sport - and BL2 too was created for the up-and-coming riders on tracks who couldn't afford to go BL1 and some second teams of BL1 outfits  Does this not sound familiar???  Provincial League riders raised their game, against the so-called National League star riders (and there were a lot more of them than there are now in the Elite(?) League) - and it worked, it worked very well - indeed, new tracks appeared  And it could work again, if costs are cut, admission prices are reduced, live televised league racing is abolished, and those that want to race a full British league programme can do so, those that want to ++++ off to Sweden, Denmark and Poland, well, let them go - no more prima donnas, please!  Just a thought! Sorry but can you tell me what OTA is. Looked it up on the internet and didn't bring anything of any relivance up. Never heard of it before. Oak Tree Arena Edited May 23, 2015 by Midland Red 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I know we've been over this ground before - several times - but it does seem that we are revisiting 1963/64, when the top league (National League) was dying through falling number of tracks, and the lower league (Provinicial League) was reportedly doing decent business and providing good racing  So what happened?  Amalgamation, the creation of the British League, the saviour (then) of the so-called dying sport - and BL2 too was created for the up-and-coming riders on tracks who couldn't afford to go BL1 and some second teams of BL1 outfits  Does this not sound familiar???  Provincial League riders raised their game, against the so-called National League star riders (and there were a lot more of them than there are now in the Elite(?) League) - and it worked, it worked very well - indeed, new tracks appeared  And it could work again, if costs are cut, admission prices are reduced, live televised league racing is abolished, and those that want to race a full British league programme can do so, those that want to ++++ off to Sweden, Denmark and Poland, well, let them go - no more proma donnas, please!  Just a thought!  Oak Tree Arena I have advocated a British League Mark 2 before on this forum. It was a shot in the arm for British speedway in 1965 and the time is right to try again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I can see this having to happen sooner rather than latter. We have now come to the stage where the EL clubs are struggling to put together a 1-5 team, that is called upon to race at home and away meetings, we now have a few riders that are calling in sick, when track conditions don't suit them. Plus how many riders are mising due to having to go to GP qulifiers etc or ride for their team abroud. The clubs are really struggling at times to pull in a guest rider or riders, as most of the other are having the same troubles with their lads riding for their PL club. Well time and long over due that the whole structure of British speedway was changed before it is to late to make the changes. When will the promoters sit down and see sense, that things are going down hill, fast than a rabbit down a hole being chased by a fox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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