Ben91 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 The squad is poor when you put it next to the lists of riders that the top nations can put out but our top three are good enough to get us to the final IMO. As i've said already I'd give King the last spot as he is the best bet round Lynn IMO. If we are to give that spot to one of the up and coming riders instead then I'd personally plump for Howarth, I think he has the most potential and the right mentality to become a handy rider on the SWC scene. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Nobody is saying the squad is full of poor riders, it's not....Woffy is at the top of the world tree, Harris is still a world class performer on his day, Lambert is one of the best prospects we have had for a long time...the others are all very good capable riders ...nobody is knocking them as riders..... But...I have to agree that as an international squad it is a poor squad when compared to squads Britain have been able to pick in years gone by...not knocking the riders but a lot of that squad would not have come remotely close to a squad a few years ago which basically shows the lack of depth in British speedway at the moment. ....but it think the actual team should still reach the final, but that's where they will struggle when only 2 pg the squad have real extensive European experience on European tracks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 We have the gung guns goming through the ranks now. The only problem, I can see with most of them unlike the other nations, very few of our young riders have riden in anything other than the NL, PL or at reserve berth in the EL.Riders of their age from the other countries have been competeing at a higher level and have much more experiance of other countries track, than any of our lads have, to say we are holding them back is an uderstaetment. A few years back these lads would have been ridinging in the EL in a full team place and would have now been far better riders than the stage they are at now in their career. I sit and wonder at times why they don't seem to get the chances to proves there selves, as young riders did in the 70's or 80's. These guys need to be blooded with the best of them to be able to up their game. Or we are going to see them, ending up the same way as a lot of other failed British lads. Is that why the promoters don't give them what they need, because of all the ones in the past who failed to fulfil their protentials. British speedway is in a bad state of affairs now, if they don't do their best to help these lads along, then come 2020, we will not be able to put a team of 4 decent riders together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Tbf if we picked Nichols we would have a top 3 competitive with any nation, plus Lambert who has tonnes of potential. That side would capable of finishing on the podium on a good day against full strength opposition, and cert mainly this season with Aussie missing ward and doubts about whether Russia will be full strength. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Tbf if we picked Nichols we would have a top 3 competitive with any nation, plus Lambert who has tonnes of potential. That side would capable of finishing on the podium on a good day against full strength opposition, and cert mainly this season with Aussie missing ward and doubts about whether Russia will be full strength. Scott has already stated many moons ago he won't ride for Team GB, so its pointless even bringing him into the equasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Scott has already stated many moons ago he won't ride for Team GB, so its pointless even bringing him into the equasion. Riders say stuff all the time and then change their minds. A start to the road to repairing relationships would have been to let him ride in the pairs meeting. GB doesn't have enough riders of international standard to not at leats make an effort to get Scott to reconsider Maybe they have, but comments around the pairs event dont indicate this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Riders say stuff all the time and then change their minds. A start to the road to repairing relationships would have been to let him ride in the pairs meeting. GB doesn't have enough riders of international standard to not at leats make an effort to get Scott to reconsider Maybe they have, but comments around the pairs event dont indicate this.. I don't think Scott will be persuaded to ride for Team GB. But your right what you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 It would seem to make sense to broadly select the five best "horses for the course" at Kings Lynn. Tai Woffinden actually has quite a poor record at King's Lynn, but I would certainly not expect nor suggest that he should not be selected as part of the team. Of the 10 man squad, Chris Harris has the best record at Kings Lynn, followed by Lewis Kerr - though his average is obviously skewed by the fact that the EL draft riders avoid the stiffest competition in meetings and has to be viewed with caution. I would therefore expect the line-up at Kings Lynn to be: Chris Harris Danny King Robert Lambert Richie Worrall (Res) Tai Woffinden This list shows the riders in order of their averages at Kings Lynn. Tai actually has the lowest average of the 5 at only 5.71, but you couldn't really exclude the country's one true world class rider from the main body of the team ... could you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 It would seem to make sense to broadly select the five best "horses for the course" at Kings Lynn. Tai Woffinden actually has quite a poor record at King's Lynn, but I would certainly not expect nor suggest that he should not be selected as part of the team. Of the 10 man squad, Chris Harris has the best record at Kings Lynn, followed by Lewis Kerr - though his average is obviously skewed by the fact that the EL draft riders avoid the stiffest competition in meetings and has to be viewed with caution. I would therefore expect the line-up at Kings Lynn to be: Chris Harris Danny King Robert Lambert Richie Worrall (Res) Tai Woffinden This list shows the riders in order of their averages at Kings Lynn. Tai actually has the lowest average of the 5 at only 5.71, but you couldn't really exclude the country's one true world class rider from the main body of the team ... could you?? I think you also have to consider current form in general and the rider's history at this level, with that in mind I certainly wouldn't include Worrall and probably not King either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I think you also have to consider current form in general and the rider's history at this level, with that in mind I certainly wouldn't include Worrall and probably not King either. Totally valid point. That said, I think I would still go with King as he is in decent form as well as having a good track record at Lynn. Worrall is another matter, as he is not in particularly impressive form at the moment. I wouldn't be upset by seeing Kerr given the reserve slot ahead of Worrall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Scott has already stated many moons ago he won't ride for Team GB, so its pointless even bringing him into the equasion. I thought Scott said he would ride for team gb in the pairs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I remember the days of Loram Havelock Screen Louis Doncaster Smith Cross Tatum Wigg all in the same British Finals and pick any of those 4 and what a force in a team event. I would be curious to know the particular year when you would have picked that squad and it would have been top notch?…. as far back as 89 when Loram, Louis and Screen wouldn't have been near the squad I would assume when the likes of Loram would have been no where near it. Listing of a load of riders from certain eras doesn’t reflect true strength at the time of key events Case and point….2005 British Final had Nicholls, Loram, Screen, Harris, Louis, Havelock, Richardson compete, that is a couple of world champions yet that you wouldn't have took that squad to the WC that year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I would be curious to know the particular year when you would have picked that squad and it would have been top notch?…. as far back as 89 when Loram, Louis and Screen wouldn't have been near the squad I would assume when the likes of Loram would have been no where near it. Listing of a load of riders from certain eras doesn’t reflect true strength at the time of key events Case and point….2005 British Final had Nicholls, Loram, Screen, Harris, Louis, Havelock, Richardson compete, that is a couple of world champions yet that you wouldn't have took that squad to the WC that year. 2000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I would be curious to know the particular year when you would have picked that squad and it would have been top notch?…. as far back as 89 when Loram, Louis and Screen wouldn't have been near the squad I would assume when the likes of Loram would have been no where near it. Around '97 would probably be the closest you would get for the whole group of nine listed. I think Cross may have finished in '96 and Wigg was past his best, though still riding in the EL for Kings Lynn. Doncaster was also beyond his prime at this point. All of the other six were at or close to the height of their powers though. Havelock, Screen & Loram were all part of the dominant Bradford team in '97. Screen & Loram had also been British Champions in '96 & '97 respectively, with Louis going on to be British Champion in '98. Smith was active in the GPs at that time and finished 14th (his best) in '97. Tatum was Overseas Champion in '97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 why are people talking about who has a higher average than someone else? the first meeting is at Kings Lynn .. if someone has a good average around Lakeside or Belle Vue or whatever then that means diddly squat when it comes to Kings Lynn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 It would seem to make sense to broadly select the five best "horses for the course" at Kings Lynn. Tai Woffinden actually has quite a poor record at King's Lynn, but I would certainly not expect nor suggest that he should not be selected as part of the team. Of the 10 man squad, Chris Harris has the best record at Kings Lynn, followed by Lewis Kerr - though his average is obviously skewed by the fact that the EL draft riders avoid the stiffest competition in meetings and has to be viewed with caution. I would therefore expect the line-up at Kings Lynn to be: Chris Harris Danny King Robert Lambert Richie Worrall (Res) Tai Woffinden This list shows the riders in order of their averages at Kings Lynn. Tai actually has the lowest average of the 5 at only 5.71, but you couldn't really exclude the country's one true world class rider from the main body of the team ... could you?? why are people talking about who has a higher average than someone else? the first meeting is at Kings Lynn .. if someone has a good average around Lakeside or Belle Vue or whatever then that means diddly squat when it comes to Kings Lynn I'm not sure that people have been generally talking about relative averages apart from when I brought it up in my post (quoted above) - and they are averages specific to Kings Lynn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm sure Howath scoring 0 tonight at Kings Lynn to go with his Kings Lynn performances previously has totally ruled out a spot for him...it would be madness to pick him at Kings Lynn.....on the other hand another 10 paid 11 from 4 from Lambert must have sealed his spot, if it wasn't sealed already which it should have been. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I would be curious to know the particular year when you would have picked that squad and it would have been top notch?…. as far back as 89 when Loram, Louis and Screen wouldn't have been near the squad I would assume when the likes of Loram would have been no where near it. Listing of a load of riders from certain eras doesn’t reflect true strength at the time of key events Case and point….2005 British Final had Nicholls, Loram, Screen, Harris, Louis, Havelock, Richardson compete, that is a couple of world champions yet that you wouldn't have took that squad to the WC that year. my first british final was 1990 and correct Loram and Louis were not ready then but go forward a couple of years and they were along with the Tatums and Havelocks. Louis was world number in 1993 and Havvy obviously world champ in 92. Smith and Screen were also in world finals and Loram after injury in 93 made it in 1994. Let's not forget that in the early 90's Paul Thorp was also riding at a top level. My point is that the pool of riders we have now is far removed from back then and even the early90's wasn't the golden era for British riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 King scored 11 in the Kings Lynn round last year he has to be in at least for that. Tai Woffinden Chris Harris Danny King Robert Lambert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) King scored 11 in the Kings Lynn round last year he has to be in at least for that. Tai Woffinden Chris Harris Danny King Robert Lambert I wouldn't argue with that foursome. Edited May 14, 2015 by TheCookster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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