National Speedway Stadium Opening Tickets Now On Sale

[Long Eye]

So why don't they cut down the number of gp's and make us all happy.

The biggest problem with speedway. Fans don't like watching the sport unless it involves their own pissant team.

[Gemini]

The biggest problem with speedway. Fans don't like watching the sport unless it involves their own pissant team.

Is that a word I need to add to my list for future reference? Never heard of it but I like it.

[Sotonian]

The SGP series will always be a mix of grandiose stadiums like Warsaw, Cardiff, Stockholm,Melbourne and, to a lesser degree, Horsens, along with more traditional speedway venues such as Malilla, Torun and, hopefully, Gorzow.

Maybe now, but that certainly isn't what was promised when it was launched. Something about plush stadia in major cities....

[KIRKYLANE]

Teterow is a super race track.

 

I would rather go to a good track for a SGP than hope a one day track comes up to scratch.

 

The Finnish gp was in the centre of a good city with a poor track due the restrictions of the size and nature of the stadium.

[Grand Central]

NOT quite as simple as you make out of course. No doubt everyone would love to see a SGP at Bydgoszcz, one of the all-time great speedway tracks, but the town has changed dramatically in recent years. Speedway is no longer the attraction there that it once was, just witness the plight of the club and the fact that the stadium, certainly by Polish standards is very second rate.

 

Ole Olsen actually doesn't want a SGP at Vojens. It is a costly exercise and after so many years battling the elements (it always rains there!) he is happy to let someone else take the risk. The success of the SGP at Horsens this year - better stadium and public facilities than at Vojens - left Ole far more relaxed than he has been at Vojens, especially for the SWC this year.

 

Gorzow have actually made a bid to continue hosting SGP events. They made a profit this year, have one of their own in the series in 2016 along with probably at least two more Polish riders, and have a track that is very nearly on a par with Bydgoszcz while the town remains very much a speedway hotbed.

 

People who are ridiculing Teterow might be pleasantly surprised. I have it on good authority that the track is excellent, it is situated in a part of Germany where speedway is popular and they can do wonders with temporary grandstands, etc.

 

The SGP series will always be a mix of grandiose stadiums like Warsaw, Cardiff, Stockholm,Melbourne and, to a lesser degree, Horsens, along with more traditional speedway venues such as Malilla, Torun and, hopefully, Gorzow.

 

Of course it is about money. That's not being cynical, it is about realism. But that is not necessarily to the detriment of the series. Of course there have been failures. Finland for example. But finding new, viable venues isn't easy.

.

Ok ... Fair enough, my (mock) sympathy for Ole will not be requited.

 

But the original point made by another poster was to equate a GP at Teterow, on a par with a World final in Norden.

That does seems about right.

 

A 'mix' of venues for 2016 that has high points of Cardiff, Melbourne and Stockhom will 'surprise' us with an off the beaten-track 'gem' such as Teterow.

 

Rather similar to that 'mix' of venues for the early 80s World finals... Wembley and LA Coleseum followed by the 'surprise' of Norden. Not quite how we viewed it, was it?

 

Perhaps, as you say, a 'mix' ... not at all a backward step.

Possibly.

.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Grand Central

[PHILIPRISING]

Yet you say with a straight face that Teterow can be good venue? Bydgoszcz can't justify stumping up the asking price - it's that simple.

 

BECAUSE the club is broke and without Gollob speedway interest in the town has nosedived. Gorzow's average crowd this year is apparently around the 15,000 mark so not difficult to get a bit more than that for a SGP especially when you have four home riders in the event including the club's favourite Zmarzlik.

 

Or the local council won't support the GP any more, whereas Horsens (under a different council) will?

 

A profit taking into account the staging fee paid by the local council?

 

DOES it matter as long as the club makes a profit?

 

Teterow is universally agreed to be a crap track (I think Kelvin must have been referring to the grass track next door ), and we can see with our own eyes how incredibly basic the stadium is (plus it's in the middle of nowhere). Germany constantly disappoints with its promised venues - what happened to Berlin (again)?

 

UNIVERSALLY by whom?

 

You told us not so long ago that tracks were queuing up to stage GPs...

 

IN Poland ... as long as the PZM don't stamp down and deals can be agreed

.

Ok ... Fair enough, my (mock) sympathy for Ole will not be requited.

 

But the original point made by another poster was to equate a GP at Teterow, on a par with a World final in Norden.

That does seems about right.

 

A 'mix' of venues for 2016 that has high points of Cardiff, Melbourne and Stockhom will 'surprise' us with an off the beaten-track 'gem' such as Teterow.

 

Rather similar to that 'mix' of venues for the early 80s World finals... Wembley and LA Coleseum followed by the 'surprise' of Norden. Not quite how we viewed it, was it?

 

Perhaps, as you say, a 'mix' ... not at all a backward step.

Possibly.

.

AGREE about Norden, that was a massive come down after the LA Coliseum let alone Wembley.

 

To keep a very complex story as short as possible, the FIM were in a jam after being sued by Harry Oxley after they wouldn't sanction some international meetings at Costa Mesa and elsewhere in Southern California. The FIM tried to argue through the Californian Supreme Court that they were immune from such action but it was ruled that their agents the AMA (American Motorcycle Association) were subject to the court's authority and therefore so were the FIM and a deal had to be concluded.

 

Part one was that Oxley and his partners (Jack Milne, Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger) could promote the 1982 World Final at the LA Coliseum and to ease that through Track Racing Commission at the time Germany were awarded the Final for the following year and could only come up with Norden.

 

However, having such a track stage a one-off World Final isn't quite the same as a single round of the World Championship, albeit a Speedway Grand Prix.

Edited September 10, 2015 by PHILIPRISING

[racers and royals]

WHY do you assume that would make "all of us happy?" Do you speak for everyone?

ACTUALLY they were ...

If the race-off and final at Vojens were BSI promoted surely they should have been named as such on the FIM sup regs(as they were in the Kings lynn sup regs) and not speed sport. http://www.fim-live.com/en/sport/regulations-and-documents/speedway-world-cup/

[PHILIPRISING]

THERE may have been reasons for doing that, I don't know, but believe me it was a BSI event. Speedway Star has a fairly simple way of knowing ... who pays for the programme production. Previous events at Vojens have been Speed Sport (Ole Olsen) ... this one was BSI.

[The White Knight]

THERE may have been reasons for doing that, I don't know, but believe me it was a BSI event. Speedway Star has a fairly simple way of knowing ... who pays for the programme production. Previous events at Vojens have been Speed Sport (Ole Olsen) ... this one was BSI.

Q.E.D.

[Grand Central]

AGREE about Norden, that was a massive come down after the LA Coliseum let alone Wembley.

 

To keep a very complex story as short as possible, the FIM were in a jam after being sued by Harry Oxley after they wouldn't sanction some international meetings at Costa Mesa and elsewhere in Southern California. The FIM tried to argue through the Californian Supreme Court that they were immune from such action but it was ruled that their agents the AMA (American Motorcycle Association) were subject to the court's authority and therefore so were the FIM and a deal had to be concluded.

 

Part one was that Oxley and his partners (Jack Milne, Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger) could promote the 1982 World Final at the LA Coliseum and to ease that through Track Racing Commission at the time Germany were awarded the Final for the following year and could only come up with Norden.

 

However, having such a track stage a one-off World Final isn't quite the same as a single round of the World Championship, albeit a Speedway Grand Prix.

 

.

Personally, I find the background to all these things quite fascinating; it could make a good winter feature in the Star to go behind the scenes on some of them. Especially, now that a good number of years have passed.

 

On Norden, though, what with the new seating and still massive capacity .... It actually looks reasonably impressive now!

It does look much more like a decent GP venue than Teterow.

.

Pity, standards really have slipped.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Grand Central

[Humphrey Appleby]

Part one was that Oxley and his partners (Jack Milne, Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger) could promote the 1982 World Final at the LA Coliseum and to ease that through Track Racing Commission at the time Germany were awarded the Final for the following year and could only come up with Norden.

Seems a weak reason to approve a World Final in Germany, especially one in the middle of nowhere. Couldn't the award have been made conditional on finding a decent stadium, as after all the Germans did manage to pull Munich out of the bag only 6 years later?

 

It does look much more like a decent GP venue than Teterow. Pity, standards really have slipped.

With the greatest of respect to Teterow, it's an absolute joke to be holding a GP there. It would just about be understandable if someone wanted to take a GP to minor speedway country and that's all that was available, but whilst Germany is not really a major speedway country, it's certainly not an insignificant one and surely should be able to come with something better.

 

DOES it matter as long as the club makes a profit?

Of course it matters, because aside from it being disingenuous to state that GP has made a profit without including all the hosting costs, if the GP is not making a profit overall then it's only sustainable whilst the council is willing to subsidise it. The decision to host the GP is not really down to the club at all.

 

UNIVERSALLY by whom?

The people who've actually been and reported on here.

 

IN Poland ... as long as the PZM don't stamp down and deals can be agreed

Why are the PZM stamping down? Perhaps they've cottoned onto the fact that someone is making money, and it's not them.

 

Anyway, it wasn't just Poland where all these tracks were apparently lining up to host a GP. It was erm.. Finland and New Zealand etc..

Edited September 10, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[PHILIPRISING]

Seems a weak reason to approve a World Final in Germany, especially one in the middle of nowhere. Couldn't the award have been made on the basis of finding a decent stadium, as after all the Germans did manage to pull Munich out of the bag only 6 years later?

 

With the greatest of respect to Teterow, it's an absolute joke to be holding a GP there. It would just about be understandable if someone wanted to take a GP to minor speedway country and that's all that was available, but Germany whilst not really a major speedway country, is certainly not an insignificant one and surely should be able to come with something better.

 

Of course it matters, because the GP is not making a profit overall and is only sustainable whilst the council is willing to throw around a largesse. The decision to host the GP is not really down to the club at all.

 

 

The people who've actually been and reported on there.

 

 

Why are the PZM stamping down? Perhaps they've cottoned onto the fact that someone is making money, and it's not them.

 

Anyway, it wasn't just Poland where all these tracks were apparently lining up to host a GP. It was erm.. Finland and New Zealand etc..

[SCB]

I'll defend GPs going to the Millenoum Stadiun, the Etihad, the Friends arena. The racing may not be the best but I'd say it's acceptable these days and it means huge crowds and a greater chance of media attention. I'll also defend the Polish and Swedish GP in real tracks as they tend to result in good racing and that's ultimately what it's about. I even "got" Finland.

 

What does confuse me is going to a crap track with crap facilities. It doesn't appease the purist with good racing and it's not even going to make a blip on the median radar. It seems to be all the negative with none of the positives. Ok BSI might make a few ££ of someone but surely that someone is only going to lose money?! It's not like Cardiff and the Welsh government pay large sums bit local business gets it back in bucket loads in hotels and beers sold over a weekend. How many people will be at Tetrow? And how many will go for a weekend in Tetrow?

[PHILIPRISING]

WHY do you (HH) query everything? I actually sat in on the depositions (very boring) in Los Angeles on a few occasions. The FIM needed the German vote (Gunter Sorber) at the CCP to ensure awarding the WF to Oxley went through. Certain other voting nations towed the German line. It was as simple as that.

 

Gorzow ... if the town (speedway mad) wants a GP and the City are prepared to throw in a few bob to help put them on the map what's wrong with that?

 

Why should the PZM make money out of SGPs unless (as it Warsaw) they are promoting them?

 

There is actually only one reason why New Zealand aren't still staging a GP (nothing to do with Buckley losing money, he can afford it and writes it off against tax) but I'm sadly not at liberty to say what it is.

 

Finland could have been a success ... nice town, good stadium, but they got the track shape very wrong and it all went pear-shaped from there.

Edited September 10, 2015 by PHILIPRISING

[Countershaftcounter]

WHY do you (HH) query everything? I actually sat in on the depositions (very boring) in Los Angeles on a few occasions. The FIM needed the German vote (Gunter Sorber) at the CCP to ensure awarding the WF to Oxley went through. Certain other voting nations towed the German line. It was as simple as that.

 

Gorzow ... if the town (speedway mad) wants a GP and the City are prepared to throw in a few bob to help put them on the map what's wrong with that?

 

Why should the PZM make money out of SGPs unless (as it Warsaw) they are promoting them?

 

There is actually only one reason why New Zealand aren't still staging a GP (nothing to do with Buckley losing money, he can afford it and writes it off against tax) but I'm sadly not at liberty to say what it is.

 

Finland could have been a success ... nice town, good stadium, but they got the track shape very wrong and it all went pear-shaped from there.

oh god not another of PR's " i know something you don't know " teasers, how old are you 12?

[PHILIPRISING]

oh god not another of PR's " i know something you don't know " teasers, how old are you 12?

WISH I was

[Humphrey Appleby]

WHY do you (HH) query everything? I actually sat in on the depositions (very boring) in Los Angeles on a few occasions. The FIM needed the German vote (Gunter Sorber) at the CCP to ensure awarding the WF to Oxley went through. Certain other voting nations towed the German line. It was as simple as that.

I query everything because speedway is full of nonsense.

 

If the FIM was genuinely being threatened with being sued in a US court, and to be honest I suspect there's a lot more to this story than being reported, then I'd imagine the FIM Executive Board (or whatever it's called) could simply decide to settle by awarding a World Final without recourse to any horse trading in the CCP.

 

Gorzow ... if the town (speedway mad) wants a GP and the City are prepared to throw in a few bob to help put them on the map what's wrong with that?

It's more than few bob though, isn't it?

 

Why should the PZM make money out of SGPs unless (as it Warsaw) they are promoting them?

Because in many international sports, revenue from the premier events is disbursed amongst the national federations, and maybe the PZM have finally worked this out.

 

Finland could have been a success ... nice town, good stadium, but they got the track shape very wrong and it all went pear-shaped from there.

Indeed - nothing at all wrong with the principle of going to Finland, but nice to see the buck once again passed to the locals. Did nobody actually go and inspect the venue and evaluate whether a decent track could be put in? Does BSI take responsibility for anything?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[iris123]

Here is a report and a couple of videos from last years U21 quali in Teterow.It mentions the poor track and the number of crashes and how many heats were run with only 3 riders.There are also two videos of crashes in the problem curve.Stekkers and the Finnish ref had to go out during the meeting to inspect the track.Hardly a good reputation.Like I mentioned elsewhere there was also a meeting where only the juniors rode their heats as the senior riders refused to ride because of the dangerous track......I could also dig out the report from that meeting if really needed

 

http://www.speedweek.com/speedwayu21teamwm/news/58005/U21-Team-WM-Teterow-Deutsches-Team-versagte.html

 

This was my first meeting in Teterow for a nuber of years as the track had a reputation of being very slick and hardly any passing.A friend o mine who goes told me it had changed and was now better.This was the result.......it also has a very poor reputation on the German speedway forum,so I have no idea who told Phil it was a great track apart from Kelvin who hasn't ridden a proper race there in donkeys years.In fact the previous time I was there I think was his last meeting

 

Report from the other meeting where riders refused to go out

 

http://www.speedway-forum.de/index.php/Thread/11102-Eklat-am-Bergring-Junge-Speedway-Fahrer-boykottieren-den-Start/?postID=173042&highlight=teterow#post173042

Edited September 10, 2015 by iris123

[New Science]

I'll defend GPs going to the Millenoum Stadiun, the Etihad, the Friends arena. The racing may not be the best but I'd say it's acceptable these days and it means huge crowds and a greater chance of media attention. I'll also defend the Polish and Swedish GP in real tracks as they tend to result in good racing and that's ultimately what it's about. I even "got" Finland.

 

What does confuse me is going to a crap track with crap facilities. It doesn't appease the purist with good racing and it's not even going to make a blip on the median radar. It seems to be all the negative with none of the positives. Ok BSI might make a few ££ of someone but surely that someone is only going to lose money?! It's not like Cardiff and the Welsh government pay large sums bit local business gets it back in bucket loads in hotels and beers sold over a weekend. How many people will be at Tetrow? And how many will go for a weekend in Tetrow?

Don't think Stockholm will remain on the calender any longer unless there is a significant increase on last years attendance 16,500. The worrying thing with temporary tracks {Cardiff being the exception} is they start off with a lot of hype and blusto but invariably fizzle out after a few years.Copenhagen,Gothenberg,Berlin,Stockholm Olympic stadium,Tampere,Auckland and Hamar have all come and gone.What will be the future of Warsaw ?,will the Pole's return after last year ?,What sort of attendance will they get at Melbourne if the championship is over. I think people try it once and realise its largely not as good as speedway on a permanent track and that's why interest drops off.

[PHILIPRISING]

I query everything because speedway is full of nonsense.

 

If the FIM was genuinely being threatened with being sued in a US court, and to be honest I suspect there's a lot more to this story than being reported, then I'd imagine the FIM Executive Board (or whatever it's called) could simply decide to settle by awarding a World Final without recourse to any horse trading in the CCP.

 

SUSPECT away Humphrey... the AMA and the FIM were in a fix and wanted it to go away as quietly as possible. Allocation of World Finals was within the remit of the CCP. Why on earth would Germany have got one?