semion Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 What makes a good track? Is it the shape? or the amount of shale? Is it the Surface? has it got to be smooth? or do we prefer it rough? Does it need to be wet? or even say dry. Some say we want sharper bends, other say it has to be fast. Many opinion's vary on the ideal raceway...... I think the Lynn track has a lot of unjust criticism. In my view, it's the quality of machine and rider that needs to be looked at. Bomber Harris has always rated this track and last night he showed how it could be raced. If you had quality GP riders on fast equipment you would see quality races.... but you dont and wont. How many GP Riders have we riding in the UK Now ? Could it be suggested that some of the problems are with the riders attitude. The top boys have meetings all mapped out for them throughout the year, all over Europe. If they dont make the gate, then maybe the mindset is, oh well, I will settle for 2nd postion, Im not gonna bust my ass as I have another X number of meetings this week. Worth considering ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 ....iainb.......We too remarked on the poor crowd but it's hardly surprising when the meeting doesn't start until 40 mins after the advertised start time and then they still go on to have an interval. What is it about tracks and intervals? With the announcers always banging on about it as if that's the main attraction and what everybody has turned up for. My pet subject - drives me mad all this hanging around and then having an interval. If they had to have one why not before heat 11 when there was yet another delay while the 2 Bees riders sorted their machines out following the first bend crash. It's not set in stone it has to be after that heat surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheart Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 but you dont and wont. How many GP Riders have we riding in the UK Now ? Could it be suggested that some of the problems are with the riders attitude. The top boys have meetings all mapped out for them throughout the year, all over Europe. If they dont make the gate, then maybe the mindset is, oh well, I will settle for 2nd postion, Im not gonna bust my ass as I have another X number of meetings this week. Worth considering ? It is bound to be a factor. Another is, why thrash my engine for an additional point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobblytriers Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I honestly don't think the surface or preparation has anything to do with it, Huggy used to prepare it very grippy and that's not the answer for me. I believe it's the shape that's the problem, riders get too strung out. I've also read the word 'overrated' numerous times on this thread and I can't agreee with that either, who rates Lynn as a good race track nowadays? Not many people I'd suggest, maybe 15 years ago but not now. Well there's a thing! Never thought I'd read that Kings Lynn's track was the wrong shape! If you look at the Leicester threads, you'll see that there are a lot of fans who think that BP is the wrong shape and they're all saying it should be made wider .. more like Lynns perhaps? We have seen some good meetings at BP and I saw some at Lynn years ago, so it is possible to have good, close competitive racing no matter what the track shape is. I have said many times that there is more to it than just the shape. Watch the first GP of either 2013 or 14, on a huge track with sweeping curves and count the passes ... and that was at GP level. The riders determination, the bikes, the shale (type and depth), moisture content, banking all play a part. Years ago, when the bikes were using total loss engines, it's even been suggested that the oil deposited over the track over a period of time, gave the surface extra grip. All we can hope for as fans is that it all comes together on the night. When it's right, it's the best sport in the world. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy17 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Track shapes are the biggest problem IMO mixed in with the standard of rider. Look at the Swedish tracks and some Polish tracks, the straights aren't that long and the tracks really wide, this formula 9 time out of 10 produces good racing. Also in Sweden, Poland and the PL over here the quality of the riders is a lot closer. The gaps between the heatleaders and second strings is amplified on a track like Kings Lynn. Surely it's no coincidence the best race of the night was Heat 15 where the best 4 riders on show for the night were virtually under a blanket all race. Watch a Swedish, Polish or a PL meeting at a track like Peterborough, Somerset, Sheffield or a couple more where you have the balance of quality in riders and a wide track with long bends and shorter straights and you have a good meeting. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Nobblytriers, just my opinion really. For me the better tracks tend to be those with shorter straights and longer bends, ie the more circular ones such as Peterborough, Somerset, Scunthorpe, Plymouth, Sheffield, Mildenhall (when prepared right). The advancement in speedway technology over the last 10-15 years IMO means that the bikes have got too fast for Lynn, after the first lap or so riders are too strung out with the long straights. Don't know if it would be possible, cost effective or would fit in with stock cars but I believe a change of shape with shorter straights and wider bends might improve the racing at Lynn and stop riders being so strung out. Three good races out of fifteen isn't value for £17 IMO, especially in chilly weather with a needless 20 minute interval after heat 11. As I say just my thoughts, I may well be in the minority with these views. Edited April 30, 2015 by Gordon Bennett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Why is the interval needless ? It give the Promotion extra time to sell food, drink etc to boast their income. It also give the likes of the Jaybea a further opportunity to sell his merchandise. Also the people standing about in the middle, medical team track staff etc the chance to go for a jimmy. If The riders can treat it like a Business then I am sure so to the Promotion's. How many times have we seen on TV riders interviewed where they havent a Scooby what the match score is, but I would bet they know how exactly much they had earned that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 The thing is it's not just an off match as you put it. The time to worry is when you have a heat leader riding poorly (bjerre at Lynn )and you can't win matches and not when he is scoring below average but the team are winning . Obviously in the longer term Hans will need to up his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB252 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 If you had quality GP riders on fast equipment you would see quality races.... But they have teams packed with GP riders in Sweden and the quality of the action is almost always absolutely atrocious. Not to mention the unrealistic costs associated with running such teams, which usually sees at least one of the Swedish clubs get into financial bother during the year. Even at it's height, the BL had riders of varying degrees of quality in the team, but the action was better. We never had one team tracking a top five of Nielsen, Gundersen, Knudsen, Wigg and Tatum, which is the equivalent of Vetlandas recent top 5s. If anything, the current heat format in the EL ensures that riders of a similar standard are in the same heats, so it should help the racing, and indeed does on other tracks. Monmore was good on Monday, this one wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobblytriers Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Nobblytriers, just my opinion really. For me the better tracks tend to be those with shorter straights and longer bends, ie the more circular ones such as Peterborough, Somerset, Scunthorpe, Plymouth, Sheffield, Mildenhall (when prepared right). The advancement in speedway technology over the last 10-15 years IMO means that the bikes have got too fast for Lynn, after the first lap or so riders are too strung out with the long straights. Don't know if it would be possible, cost effective or would fit in with stock cars but I believe a change of shape with shorter straights and wider bends might improve the racing at Lynn and stop riders being so strung out. Three good races out of fifteen isn't value for £17 IMO, especially in chilly weather with a needless 20 minute interval after heat 11. As I say just my thoughts, I may well be in the minority with these views. Hi Gordon, not having a go at you, just never thought I'd read or hear that statement I tend to agree with you that the tracks with shorter straights and longer bends will produce better racing. I didn't think about the evolution of the bikes, (I think John Boulger made a visit to Leicester last season and said he couldn't believe how fast the bikes were), and that must also play a part. Another one, I think, is the exhaust pipes. The power isn't delivered when the riders need it and they can't cope too well with deep tracks. It would be good to find a solution to the problem ... if there is one! J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelvinht Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Has to be shorter straights imo, KL tends be won on the riders who have the faster/more powerful set ups. If the straights were a bit shorter and wider bends I reckon it would bring it back to more skill based to a degree. Not sure i'd class Mildenhall as good track - the shape is ok, just too small for today's bikes, certainly at PL/EL level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) I dont think its a poor track, as its always fairly smooth and not humps and bumps like certain other tracks that could be mentioned. It is just not delivering the type of Speedway racing that has been enjoyed in the past. Is it the shape of the track ? The preparation ? The Shale, The bikes, The weather, the riders, or maybe a combination of some of these ? There is a problem. I wonder if Buster would make a comment about it all in his Programme notes. I would certainly be interested to hear his take on the matter. Edited April 30, 2015 by semion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I wonder if Buster would make a comment about it all in his Programme notes. I would certainly be interested to hear his take on the matter. I'm told by someone who buys a programme that apart from changing the name of the opposition, Busters prog column is the same every week. So maybe more than you would appreciate his take! I understand a guy is employed now to do media/prog stuff maybe he needs to up his game Say what you like about Jonathan, and he had his faults, he had passion and it shone thro. Lynn it seems to me is missing that passion nowadays. I bet Jonathan would have saturated the media about it being Lynn's 50th year whereas it's almost the worlds best kept secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) I don't think Bjerre needs telling - I'm sure he is well aware! Yes i'm sure he is!! point i was making was that I hope Rob doesnt pat his head and say 'dont worry, you'll be better soon' He needs to know that his team place is hanging by a thread!! Edited April 30, 2015 by Star Fever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Track shapes are the biggest problem IMO mixed in with the standard of rider. Look at the Swedish tracks and some Polish tracks, the straights aren't that long and the tracks really wide, this formula 9 time out of 10 produces good racing. Also in Sweden, Poland and the PL over here the quality of the riders is a lot closer. The gaps between the heatleaders and second strings is amplified on a track like Kings Lynn. Surely it's no coincidence the best race of the night was Heat 15 where the best 4 riders on show for the night were virtually under a blanket all race. Watch a Swedish, Polish or a PL meeting at a track like Peterborough, Somerset, Sheffield or a couple more where you have the balance of quality in riders and a wide track with long bends and shorter straights and you have a good meeting. Absolutely 100% correct... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Why is the interval needless ? It give the Promotion extra time to sell food, drink etc to boast their income. It also give the likes of the Jaybea a further opportunity to sell his merchandise. Also the people standing about in the middle, medical team track staff etc the chance to go for a jimmy. There was plenty of time for all this before the match started and during the long delay waiting for the sun to go down. Have they all got weak bladders that they can't last a couple of hours? I drove from the Travel Lodge at Long Sutton, watched the match including 2nd half and then drove back again, all without the need to visit the loo. Drives me mad all this pratting about with long drawn out meetings. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starboy118 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 There was plenty of time for all this before the match started and during the long delay waiting for the sun to go down. Have they all got weak bladders that they can't last a couple of hours? I drove from the Travel Lodge at Long Sutton, watched the match including 2nd half and then drove back again, all without the need to visit the loo. Drives me mad all this pratting about with long drawn out meetings. Absolutely right and this may well be one of the reasons why a number of people no longer attend. They just get fed up with it. Yes i'm sure he is!! point i was making was that I hope Rob doesnt pat his head and say 'dont worry, you'll be better soon' He needs to know that his team place is hanging by a thread!! Exactly how much longer is he given? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Out of interest KL fans, if Rob Lambert said I'm fed up with the team underpefroming, I'm off to ride for Poole, would you support that decision. Or is loyalty only expected to work one way. I just remember Wolves fans calling for Tai to be dropped last year when he was struggling for form, yet this year fans are criticising him for turning his back on the EL. . Edited May 1, 2015 by waihekeaces1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I appreciated the frustration caused by Kenneth low scores. I also believe if we change him for whoever, there will be (1) a number of clubs clambering for his signature, and (2) when he get his confidence back, he would come back and haunt us.... I say give him another month and all the help he needs to conquer this... Same with Porsing, He performed a lot better against Coventry. Mads is a quality guy who gives his all, but his bikes were the slowest......The amount of times he wasn't quick enough also caused frustration....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Out of interest KL fans, if Rob Lambert said I'm fed up with the team underpefroming, I'm off to ride for Poole, would you support that decision. Or is loyalty only expected to work one way. I just remember Wolves fans calling for Tai to be dropped last year when he was struggling for form, yet this year fans are criticising him for turning his back on the EL. . Interesting question. If Lambert ends up as good as many think he will be ( me included) then I can see him riding everywhere ( like Tai) and giving the UK a miss. For speedway riders it is there living, and the same as most people employees will go where they can earn the most. So If Poole ( for example) offer Lambert stupid money, then again like most people, why would he not accept it ? Speedway, at the end of the day, is a business masquerading as a Sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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