The White Knight Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Ah the good old second halves.. that AT LEAST 75% of the crowd had gone home and didn't watch. Once again you're digging up a relic of a bygone relic. "2nd halves" as you like to remember them were gone. Riders weren't interested in them, hence they were dropped and junior racing took its place. Clubs can still run junior racing now if they wish, nothing has changed there. So no its not correct. The mere notion of suggesting cutting league matches 2 heats short is nothing but absolute insanity. It doesn't matter if nobody watched BW - the Second Half was the basic breeding ground for new young British talent. No Second Halves now - very little British talent coming through. Do you not see a certain correlation there, a connection? So there you are - I am right after all BW. It would be nice if you just acknowledged the fact. I know you won't though.................................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 It doesn't matter if nobody watched BW - the Second Half was the basic breeding ground for new young British talent. No Second Halves now - very little British talent coming through. Do you not see a certain correlation there, a connection? So there you are - I am right after all BW. It would be nice if you just acknowledged the fact. I know you won't though.................................................... I won't because you're wrong. Juniors riding after a meeting has absolutely nothing to do with the main meeting being over 13 heats or 15 heats. Indeed, there are a number of teams that have junior races after meetings, others run Development league teams too. You advocate there being less heats in a meeting.. people think its poor value for money as it is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I won't because you're wrong. Juniors riding after a meeting has absolutely nothing to do with the main meeting being over 13 heats or 15 heats. Indeed, there are a number of teams that have junior races after meetings, others run Development league teams too. You advocate there being less heats in a meeting.. people think its poor value for money as it is!! THAT is not the same as watching the Professionals riding. Junior Races helped the youngsters develop in Racing, sometimes against better Riders, who helped them improve. If they went back to the Thirteen Heat Formula plus Second Halves - you would see more Races - not less. That is self evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 THAT is not the same as watching the Professionals riding. Junior Races helped the youngsters develop in Racing, sometimes against better Riders, who helped them improve. If they went back to the Thirteen Heat Formula plus Second Halves - you would see more Races - not less. That is self evident. I'm afraid WK what you are doing here is utterly destroying the myth of how much higher the standard was back in the old days. You see back in those days you could have a junior rider, not in a team anywhere, race against team members in 2nd halves and often beat them. That simply wouldn't happen now.. even with fast track riders at reserve in the EL, you're not going to have a kid from the MDL beat them. As for some junior getting anywhere near a 2nd string rider (which in the old days was quite possible).. it simply wouldn't happen now, they'd be miles behind. The race would be utterly pointless and nobody with a brain would be interested in watching it. As for your argument of 'seeing more races'..... a few people might see more.. but the MAJORITY wouldn't as they wouldn't be watching a meaningless 2nd half. They'd be on their way home, short changed even more after only seeing 13 heats of their team in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 We quite often get a MDL meeting after the Main one at Leicester Lions, as you stated White Knight, most people are just not interested in watching these lads racing which is a great shame, these are our riders of the future, after the main heats have finished I would say that about three quarters of the fans leave the stadium. We always stay to watch them, slower and competative racing most of the time, but I always like to see them and to see how they improve as the season goes on, or those that fail to improve at all, They need to put on these meetings so the lads get that extra track time they need. As for the point scoring system, it is just a way to make sure the away team comes away with a point when they have failed to win, which is stupid anyway, if you lose you lose full stop. what would the league table actually look like without these faulsly applied score totals. As with Coventry they gifted Bel Vue with a point, just by putting out 2 weeker riders in the last heat, stupid or what. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 The system was brilliant, Most heat 15s mattered for both sets of fans.Apparently they changed the system that you get 3 points for any home win because Jon Cook felt some fans were going home disappointed with only 2 points and not 3. That leaves us in the totally crap situation where having won a meeting, you can now give the opposition a point if you like. The issue you have is people don't know about it. Coventry fans left last night thinking they had dropped a point,some quite angry with the choice for heat 15. If you're going to change the rule to please the home fans then tell the home fans FFS! I wonder if after Lakeside home loss last night Jon Cook will be suggesting 3 points for the home team eveyr meeting because his fans went home disappointed last night? The old system worked. The new one doesn't. Change it back ASAP! What do you mean they didn't know about it ? It was one of the first things announced in the post-AGM statement last November and here we are 6 weeks into the season and people reckon they still don't know about it. What do they expect? Headlines in The Sun ? Full details on the back of their cornflakes packet ? I despair about the fans base in this sport at times. 50 % of the complaints are from people who can't read/can't be bothered to read/wander round in a dream. I am surprised some of them can remember their way home after the meeting. Anyway it was George English that announced it . Jon Cook wasn't even on the MC at that stage. They also announced that there will now only be one TR which I suppose is taking a few people by surprise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) We quite often get a MDL meeting after the Main one at Leicester Lions, as you stated White Knight, most people are just not interested in watching these lads racing which is a great shame, these are our riders of the future, after the main heats have finished I would say that about three quarters of the fans leave the stadium. We always stay to watch them, slower and competative racing most of the time, but I always like to see them and to see how they improve as the season goes on, or those that fail to improve at all, They need to put on these meetings so the lads get that extra track time they need. As for the point scoring system, it is just a way to make sure the away team comes away with a point when they have failed to win, which is stupid anyway, if you lose you lose full stop. what would the league table actually look like without these faulsly applied score totals. As with Coventry they gifted Bel Vue with a point, just by putting out 2 weeker riders in the last heat, stupid or what. But that's not the point being made. Like SCB, I still think that the points system was good for keeping a meeting interesting right to the end, and a team just missing out would get a point for their efforts. Aggregate scores were just unfair, unless you were Sheffield and Exeter. SCB is making the point that he thought the original scoring was brilliant, and often it's said one of the more sensible things to be introduced. Giving the winning 3 points anyway, does not improve on the formulae. Edited April 26, 2015 by Tsunami 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Anyway it was George English that announced it . Jon Cook wasn't even on the MC at that stage. They also announced that there will now only be one TR which I suppose is taking a few people by surprise. There is only one TR this year ? never knew that thanks for letting me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 We quite often get a MDL meeting after the Main one at Leicester Lions, as you stated White Knight, most people are just not interested in watching these lads racing which is a great shame, these are our riders of the future, after the main heats have finished I would say that about three quarters of the fans leave the stadium. No, I stated most people aren't interested in response to WK's assertion that 13 heats and a 2nd half is somehow better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 What do you mean they didn't know about it ? It was one of the first things announced in the post-AGM statement last November and here we are 6 weeks into the season and people reckon they still don't know about it. What do they expect? Headlines in The Sun ? Full details on the back of their cornflakes packet ? I despair about the fans base in this sport at times. 50 % of the complaints are from people who can't read/can't be bothered to read/wander round in a dream. I am surprised some of them can remember their way home after the meeting. Anyway it was George English that announced it . Jon Cook wasn't even on the MC at that stage. They also announced that there will now only be one TR which I suppose is taking a few people by surprise. The thing is. Very few people will read the AGM statement on the BSPA website or the speedway star cover to cover every week. Most speedway fans are going to be the floating type of who turn up each week, or every few weeks thinking the rules are going to stay the same, kind of like they do in 90% of sports. So it would be nice if the blithering idiot on the mic (Peter York) actually informed trhe fans what was actually going on. How having won the meeting Coventry had 3 points and BV could still get a point - but he shouldn't need to do this anyway, the rule should not have changed. It's not too much to expect when you go to a sporting event to have the presenter explain the rule changes is it? After all he is there for the fans, allegedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 No, I stated most people aren't interested in response to WK's assertion that 13 heats and a 2nd half is somehow better. Just to add here.. I have no issue with WK wanting a competitive 2nd half.. so simply do 15 heats and a 2nd half. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 The thing is. Very few people will read the AGM statement on the BSPA website or the speedway star cover to cover every week. Most speedway fans are going to be the floating type of who turn up each week, or every few weeks thinking the rules are going to stay the same, kind of like they do in 90% of sports. So it would be nice if the blithering idiot on the mic (Peter York) actually informed trhe fans what was actually going on. How having won the meeting Coventry had 3 points and BV could still get a point - but he shouldn't need to do this anyway, the rule should not have changed. It's not too much to expect when you go to a sporting event to have the presenter explain the rule changes is it? After all he is there for the fans, allegedly. Whether the rule should or should not have been changed has nothing to do with informing the fans. If the local fans didn't know about the change that's a failure of the promotion/announcer concered not the BSPA. I don't actually think the rule change is that much of a big deal . Coventry have aspirations to come top of the league so iIt is in their interests to stop visiting team collect a point when they come to Brandon. To the sort of anorak like us that comes on this type of forum it's a big deal but to the average fan it's about perception. It's a bit like the TR rule. A great many average fans still think an 8-1 is giving a team an extra 8 points and not an extra 3 points. Personally I think the a TR is far more unfair in many fans eyes than playing around with the scoring system . Ideally I would have preferred to see the scoring system left alone and the TR's abolished completely, but that's a discussion that's been done to death so let's not go there on this thread. There is only one TR this year ? never knew that thanks for letting me know No problem. I can explain the LBW rule as well if you like. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 No problem. I can explain the LBW rule as well if you like. You can only use that in a limited number of heats cant you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 No problem. I can explain the LBW rule as well if you like. No need ..I read about it on the back of my box of cornflakes this morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Agree with everything that's been said . The BSPA had stumbled onto a good idea , probably through more luck than judgement , and have now reverted to type to mess it up . The home fans have been robbed of that extra bit of tension that makes any sport more enjoyable 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 We quite often get a MDL meeting after the Main one at Leicester Lions, as you stated White Knight, most people are just not interested in watching these lads racing which is a great shame, these are our riders of the future, after the main heats have finished I would say that about three quarters of the fans leave the stadium. We always stay to watch them, slower and competative racing most of the time, but I always like to see them and to see how they improve as the season goes on, or those that fail to improve at all, They need to put on these meetings so the lads get that extra track time they need. As for the point scoring system, it is just a way to make sure the away team comes away with a point when they have failed to win, which is stupid anyway, if you lose you lose full stop. what would the league table actually look like without these faulsly applied score totals. As with Coventry they gifted Bel Vue with a point, just by putting out 2 weeker riders in the last heat, stupid or what. Bit like 'Double Points' really. Concocted Results. Just to add here.. I have no issue with WK wanting a competitive 2nd half.. so simply do 15 heats and a 2nd half. Now I CAN agree with that sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 What a pointless thread!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 What a pointless thread!! Theres even more point(s) this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 What a pointless thread!! Why are you reading it then. I like the pun by the way. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I thought there was another issue why they changed the points system, because the old one benefited those teams with a big home advantage. ie Poole 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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