TheCookster Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 As I recall, when the current Stoke promotion took the decision to withdraw from the Premier League and to join the National League instead, it was stated that the move was part of a '5-year plan' that would then see a return to the Premier League. That announcement and move took place prior to the start of the 2011 season and this season marks the fifth consecutive year of Stoke competing in the National League. If the promotion is true to its word, then this should also be the club's final season in the National League before returning to the Premier League. I am very much looking forward to seeing the Stoke Potters back in the Premier League in 2016, but have not heard any more on the matter. Has anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen1984 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 U got no chance of going back to prem unless fans start turning up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 The way the sport is going in this country, the rest of the clubs will be joining the potters in the NL! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 U got no chance of going back to prem unless fans start turning up again. It was the decision to move down out of the Premier League that led to most people finally deciding not to go to Stoke any more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen1984 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I know mate but unless they come back then I cant see them risking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Or some people might suggest that there was never any intention to return to the Premier league, in spite of the so-called '5-year plan'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Definitely can't see a return to the PL any time soon. Too much financial uncertainty. That said you have a good NL side this year that's very capable of pushing for honours in a league that looks closer than it has for years. Enjoy the entertainment of the NL and support any speedway whilst its still around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Definitely can't see a return to the PL any time soon. Too much financial uncertainty. That said you have a good NL side this year that's very capable of pushing for honours in a league that looks closer than it has for years. Enjoy the entertainment of the NL and support any speedway whilst its still around. I haven't put a penny through Stoke's coffers since the promotion took the decision to drop down into the NL without there being an equivalent drop in the costs to attend. I am certainly not opposed to NL per se and have watched NL fixtures at various venues other than Stoke over the past four seasons. However, as far as the Stoke promotion is concerned this was one liberty too many, as several hundred others seem to have agreed by no longer attending at Loomer Road. The Stoke promotion seem to depend on those who will pay for an any speedway at any price, no matter what the quality of the overall product on offer. No other business would realistically expect to retain its customer base with that approach. As the new promotion at Glasgow are demonstrating, if you want to attract more custom, then it is up to you as the brand owner to make the effort and give people a reason buy into your offering. If the Stoke promotion isn't true to its word and doesn't return to the PL in 2016, then it will really just be yet another instance of them leading their long-suffering supporters down the garden path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 How much is it to get in to Stoke this season? and what were the prices when they were in the PL? Im not a huge fan of the Stoke promotion and can easily see how they alienate fans but id still prefer to see my team in the NL than not at all and I think most Eastbourne fans would agree (although very differing promotions) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I have no idea what Stoke charge now (without looking it up), nor do I remember precisely what they were charging for PL in 2010. However, I do recall being shocked and appalled that they were going to charge prices that were very similar to the PL levels. Compared to quality of offering from most clubs around the country (and I don't just mean the speedway itself) Stoke was already poor. It is a very valid point you make that Eastbourne has a very different promotion. I think it would be churlish of anyone to accuse the Dugards of not having been fully committed to their set up over the many years of their involvement and if I lived on the south coast and was a regular visitor to Eastbourne speedway then my attitude may well be quite different. I am still very much a speedway customer - I just don't buy the Stoke brand any more, because there are plenty of other brands offering better value for money products. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex2000 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I would stay in national league. Saw some of the best racing last Sunday better than top tier and you pay less for it NL is getting bigger with the possibility of Isle of Wight returning will it be NL if so that's it growing more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 In terms of entertainment the NL can be one of the best however I think the Premier League is the best product. In the EL and NL it is rarer to see reserves challenging and beating heatleaders because of the differing levels of quality between them. The PL offers a lot more close races. The ideal scenario IMO is to have a PL team and a NL side to help develop your own riders. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 In terms of entertainment the NL can be one of the best however I think the Premier League is the best product. In the EL and NL it is rarer to see reserves challenging and beating heatleaders because of the differing levels of quality between them. The PL offers a lot more close races. The ideal scenario IMO is to have a PL team and a NL side to help develop your own riders. You make some good points here. I watch speedway from all three UK leagues and would have to agree that PL offers the most entertaining racing as a rule. As you say, the difference in quality between the best and the worst riders in the EL and NL is so significant that there are very few real contests on the track. There is an additional problem with the NL that the riders have often not yet developed sufficient track craft to enable them to effectively explore different racing lines, so heats can become even more processional as all four riders use the same lines. However, as you rightly say, NL is where riders have the opportunity to develop. I applaud those clubs who run both PL & NL (or indeed EL & NL) and back in the day when Stoke ran the "Potters" at PL level and the "Spitfires" at NL level I did indeed watch both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thing is the best and the worst riders in the EL don't actually meet under the format. I think the EL struggles for entertainment purely because of the tracks it has, the PL generally has the better racetracks in the UK (Scunny, Somerset, P'boro, Sheffield, Plymouth) and these circuits will provide the better racing whichever league they are in. Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder, some people prefer NL action but others would say because the skill factor and speed is less it's not as exciting however much passing you get. I've always struggled to really enjoy NL racing despite going to a handful of meetings every year since it started in the 1990's, whereas others swear by it and some only go to NL meetings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thing is the best and the worst riders in the EL don't actually meet under the format. I think the EL struggles for entertainment purely because of the tracks it has, the PL generally has the better racetracks in the UK (Scunny, Somerset, P'boro, Sheffield, Plymouth) and these circuits will provide the better racing whichever league they are in. Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder, some people prefer NL action but others would say because the skill factor and speed is less it's not as exciting however much passing you get. I've always struggled to really enjoy NL racing despite going to a handful of meetings every year since it started in the 1990's, whereas others swear by it and some only go to NL meetings. I agree up to a point, but don't necessarily subscribe to the view that the PL has the best racing, because it has the best tracks. Of the current EL tracks I would only really take issue with Lakeside (due to its shape) and Belle Vue (due to often having a lack of grip) as being disappointing tracks. Stoke itself can provide excellent racing, with a variety of lines, which I believe is wasted at NL level where many riders do not yet have the skills to exploit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 In terms of entertainment the NL can be one of the best however I think the Premier League is the best product. In the EL and NL it is rarer to see reserves challenging and beating heatleaders because of the differing levels of quality between them. The PL offers a lot more close races. The ideal scenario IMO is to have a PL team and a NL side to help develop your own riders. Do you know why its rare to see reserves beating heat leaders in the EL? Because they don't ride against each others. However, prior to the change in 2014, I run the stats off previously for 2012 and 2013 to see how often reserves beat heat leaders in the PL and EL and the FACT are that as a % of heats EL reserves beat EL heat leaders more often than PL reserves beat PL heat leaders. D'oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Do you know why its rare to see reserves beating heat leaders in the EL? Because they don't ride against each others. However, prior to the change in 2014, I run the stats off previously for 2012 and 2013 to see how often reserves beat heat leaders in the PL and EL and the FACT are that as a % of heats EL reserves beat EL heat leaders more often than PL reserves beat PL heat leaders. D'oh! Interesting ... Always fun to look at the stats :-) If you look at the best v the worst i.e. the top ranked heat leader v the lowest ranked reserve, do the stats still say the same? And how does that look for th NL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Interesting ... Always fun to look at the stats :-) If you look at the best v the worst i.e. the top ranked heat leader v the lowest ranked reserve, do the stats still say the same? And how does that look for th NL? I don't have any stats for the NL yet - but intent to have them for this season. I'll run off the other stats for you later - should I remember. But as an educated guess, I bet the EL number 7s beat EL 1st more often than PL number 7 beat PL number 1s. Think about it, theres a lot more riders in the PL than the EL so it stands to reason the gap between the top and the bottom would have been greater. Admittedly that gap has been artificially widened now but as I said, they don't race each other. The bottom EL reserves tend to be the better PL reserves and the better EL second strings tend to be PL number 1st so the biggest difference between the two sets of riders is probably slightly smaller in he EL at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCookster Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I don't have any stats for the NL yet - but intent to have them for this season. I'll run off the other stats for you later - should I remember. But as an educated guess, I bet the EL number 7s beat EL 1st more often than PL number 7 beat PL number 1s. Think about it, theres a lot more riders in the PL than the EL so it stands to reason the gap between the top and the bottom would have been greater. Admittedly that gap has been artificially widened now but as I said, they don't race each other. The bottom EL reserves tend to be the better PL reserves and the better EL second strings tend to be PL number 1st so the biggest difference between the two sets of riders is probably slightly smaller in he EL at present. I take your point SCB, but the total averages available for team building in the EL over recent seasons has tended to lead to most teams having one outstanding rider at the top of the averages and then a mediocre mix below him. I also accept that this is likely to be not quite so extreme this season with the increase in the EL team average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I take your point SCB, but the total averages available for team building in the EL over recent seasons has tended to lead to most teams having one outstanding rider at the top of the averages and then a mediocre mix below him. I also accept that this is likely to be not quite so extreme this season with the increase in the EL team average. Just taking the last 2 EL meeting. Both on Monday. Heat 1. At Wolves the two second strings (two lowest average riders in the 1-5) finished 1st and 2nd and the home number 1 finished last. While at BV at about the same time Majet Zagar the home number 1 was finishing behind Coventry #5 Stuart Robson who is the 2nd lowest EL rider by average in 2015. In the BV vs Coventry meeting the Coventry reserve score a full maximum. Thats just taking the two most recent EL meetings. They certainly make RocketBen1s claims look very, very wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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