liam Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Let's wait and see if he rides sunday first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 One of the things you have overlooked is whether he rides in Sweden on Tuesday. I am the first to agree that it looks bad when a rider rides in Poland Sunday, misses GB on Monday then rides in Sweden on Tuesday, and its difficult to escape the conclusion that some of them have been pulling a fast one in the past, so I am with you there. The difficulty as I see it is that if you have a doctors certificate certifying a rider was fit to ride in Poland but aggravated the injury do you say the doctor is lying ? We know it goes on but from a pragmatic point of view the SCB is governed by the ACU, who are in turn affiliated to the FIM and there is no way that a national organisation like the ACU, let alone an international body like the FIM are going to say doctors reports should be ignored.. Lets put it another way round. If a rider has a relatively minor injury but keeps quiet about it and then says he is missing riding in England because it was an old injury that was aggravated in Poland, then what do you do? I don't see how you can have a rule that says if you ride in Poland you have to ride in GB or get a ban, irrespective of what Doctors say.about the riders fitness. The only way round this sort of thing as I see it is to have certain FIM approved doctors , known to be well qualified and reliable who have to examine riders but I can't really see that happening for a variety of reasons including cost and logistics. . Even if it did, if a rider says he is in pain the doctor pretty much has to go along with it.. This sort of thing has been going on in various forms in various sports probably forever. I say that as a general principle not specific to AJ because we still don't know the position there. Anyway we'll have to wait and see a) if he rides in Poland, what score he achieves if he does ride, and c) whether he rides in Sweden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 One of the things you have overlooked is whether he rides in Sweden on Tuesday. I am the first to agree that it looks bad when a rider rides in Poland Sunday, misses GB on Monday then rides in Sweden on Tuesday, and its difficult to escape the conclusion that some of them have been pulling a fast one in the past, so I am with you there. The difficulty as I see it is that if you have a doctors certificate certifying a rider was fit to ride in Poland but aggravated the injury do you say the doctor is lying ? We know it goes on but from a pragmatic point of view the SCB is governed by the ACU, who are in turn affiliated to the FIM and there is no way that a national organisation like the ACU, let alone an international body like the FIM are going to say doctors reports should be ignored.. Lets put it another way round. If a rider has a relatively minor injury but keeps quiet about it and then says he is missing riding in England because it was an old injury that was aggravated in Poland, then what do you do? I don't see how you can have a rule that says if you ride in Poland you have to ride in GB or get a ban, irrespective of what Doctors say.about the riders fitness. The only way round this sort of thing as I see it is to have certain FIM approved doctors , known to be well qualified and reliable who have to examine riders but I can't really see that happening for a variety of reasons including cost and logistics. . Even if it did, if a rider says he is in pain the doctor pretty much has to go along with it.. This sort of thing has been going on in various forms in various sports probably forever. I say that as a general principle not specific to AJ because we still don't know the position there. Anyway we'll have to wait and see a) if he rides in Poland, what score he achieves if he does ride, and c) whether he rides in Sweden. I didn't think the Swedish league started til May?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Some good points on here ....and ones that shows how hard it is to run Speedway in the uk .....The balance between trying to stick to the rules and make sure a good crowd comes in is a tricky one ... on one hand we don't want AJ to take the mickey and maybe he should be replaced by a pl 6 point rider but if that happens thou Wolves might get a easy win it will no doubt have an effect on there crowd and I would say that Wolves would rather face Lakeside with Doyle as money must come first . I guess we are going to have to wait intill what AJ Does before we send the lynch mob in thou . Edited April 16, 2015 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Wolves want to win! If they lose at home to a cheating team they'll get no crowd the week after! It's simple, if he rides Sunday then the sick note becomes void as by riding he's self certified he's fit. Let's wait and see anyway, he might not ride Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 He may not even complete all his GP rides on Saturday! We are getting ahead of ourselves here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Surely rightly or wrongly he could ride sunday then say he's aggraveted the injury and get signed off the meeting on Monday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Surely rightly or wrongly he could ride sunday then say he's aggraveted the injury and get signed off the meeting on Monday? Spot on.. that's what I said earlier today ...Just say on Monday Morning that Doyle is going to replaced him . Edited April 16, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Wolves want to win! If they lose at home to a cheating team they'll get no crowd the week after! It's simple, if he rides Sunday then the sick note becomes void as by riding he's self certified he's fit. Let's wait and see anyway, he might not ride Sunday. It's not simple. There is no rule in existence that says a bona fide sick note can become void. As there is no specific rule, who takes responsibility to over-rule the doctor? What would be the response in the rest of speedwáy, the rest of motorcycle sport and the rest of sport in general if British speedwáy decided medical reports can be over-ruled ? If the BSPA can over-rule a doctors report on this occasion what authority does a track doctor have to withdraw an injured rider if the rider/his team manager /Sky want him to ride? Either doctors reports count or they don't . You can't pick and choose which ones you want to rely on. As I said before dodgy medical reports have been around speedwáy and other sports for years. Maybe it's long overdue for something to be done but the whole thing is a minefield and needs to be looked at seriously but a knee-jerk reaction is likely to cause more problems than it solves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Either doctors reports count or they don't . You can't pick and choose which ones you want to rely on. As I said before dodgy medical reports have been around speedwáy and other sports for years. Maybe it's long overdue for something to be done but the whole thing is a minefield and needs to be looked at seriously but a knee-jerk reaction is likely to cause more problems than it solves. I disagree. If someone gets a Dr note on Wednesday to say they cannot do their job on Monday yet they then do their job elsewhere on Saturday and Sunday I think you have proof the drs note is a load of twaddle and you could probably, legally, ignore that dr note. And you could probably get that dr into trouble. And you'd be justified in disciplining the employee. It's impossible to prove a rider isn't pulling a fast one if they ride Sunday, get a dr note on Sunday then ride Tuesday. Then you have to trust the dr but if ASJ rides Sat and Sun but not Monday then it's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Injuries are part and parcel of this sport and where appropriate a guest should be allocated to any team to replace a rider, especially a number one rider as neither team should suffer and I actually like to watch Jason Doyle at Monmore Green so welcome the fact they will have seven against seven. The only issue really is that it should have been announced that Jason Doyle is on standby for Monday night as AJ is struggling with an injury and is going to see how he feels after Saturdays GP which is an individual event and missing that meeting only costs him and not a team. That way we could have woken up on the Monday morning to hear that JD will be riding. Maybe one rule could be implemented across the main nations of Sweden, Poland and Britain to say if a rider misses a team event, he is automatically ruled out of any team event for seven full days, meaning if he misses Monday then the next team meeting he can ride in would be from 7.30pm April 27th onwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 If AJ's injured & gets a Doctors note, but rides SGP doesn't mean he's not injured & note invalid - perhaps not fit enough for 2/3/4 meetings in so many days. Unfortunately open to abuse, but I doubt it in this case Looking forward to this one, especially seeing PK again #legend 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 If AJ's injured & gets a Doctors note, but rides SGP doesn't mean he's not injured & note invalid - perhaps not fit enough for 2/3/4 meetings in so many days. Unfortunately open to abuse, but I doubt it in this case Looking forward to this one, especially seeing PK again #legend what are you doing up at this ungodly hour dave, I've never known you to stir before 9am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 what are you doing up at this ungodly hour dave, I've never known you to stir before 9am! starting & finishing work early today, long drive to Plymouth Thought you're meant to be working, not posting on BSF Tony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 If AJ's injured & gets a Doctors note, but rides SGP doesn't mean he's not injured & note invalid - perhaps not fit enough for 2/3/4 meetings in so many days. Unfortunately open to abuse, but I doubt it in this case Yet if this had been a Pole and/or a Poole rider, the forum would have gone into meltdown!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Yet if this had been a Pole and/or a Poole rider, the forum would have gone into meltdown!! The incidence of such things is the difference - whereas Lakeside very occasionally become involved in controversy - Poole are serial offenders! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 If AJ's injured & gets a Doctors note, but rides SGP doesn't mean he's not injured & note invalid - perhaps not fit enough for 2/3/4 meetings in so many days. Unfortunately open to abuse, but I doubt it in this case Looking forward to this one, especially seeing PK again #legend Me too hope PK gets a hat full after the way L/side discarded him last season took it like the "Pro" he has always been and has come back to the rider we know he is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice Of Reason Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) A few fingers being pointed here; in particular by two people who's respective teams have hardly been beyond reproach over the past few years. Suffice to say that we know the extent of AJ's injury now. People that cast doubt upon whether it was genuine, now look just a tad silly. Moreover, how would AJ have been riding in Poland today? To the best of my knowledge, I don't think that there are any meetings (apart from a Junior event). PK discarded - was he? I thought he agreed to leave by mutual consent. That's what he said. Maybe he was lying. Doubt it. He's a great guy. In any event, I always look forward to my visit to Monmore Green - the best track in the EL serving top dollar food. Result-wise, can't see us getting sod all. Sky are in town, and errrrrr, we're riding away from home. Edited April 19, 2015 by The Voice Of Reason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 A few fingers being pointed here; in particular by two people who's respective teams have hardly been beyond reproach over the past few years. Suffice to say that we know the extent of AJ's injury now. People that cast doubt upon whether it was genuine, now look just a tad silly. Moreover, how would AJ have been riding in Poland today? To the best of my knowledge, I don't think that there are any meetings (apart from a Junior event). PK discarded - was he? I thought he agreed to leave by mutual consent. That's what he said. Maybe he was lying. Doubt it. He's a great guy. In any event, I always look forward to my visit to Monmore Green - the best track in the EL serving top dollar food. Result-wise, can't see us getting sod all. Sky are in town, and errrrrr, we're riding away from home. Mutual consent normal means go or be pushed I accept there is no sentiment in business but feel he handled it like a true" pro"( not suggesting for one moment he was lying just not making a song and dance about it )and the club were a bit hasty IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Is Boxall riding tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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