lucifer sam Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) ....and Steady completely 'owned' him in 3 heats at Owlerton and made him look very pedestrian in the process. When the chips are down I know who I would rather have and it ain't Josh. But Steady has taken up a whopping 9.96 of your team average, and Josh a bargain 7.16 of Scunny's, despite having been the No 1 at the EWR in two recent seasons, 2012 and 2013. Josh is on the better value average and also the man for the Big Heat 15. I suspect both will end up in the Top Ten of the PL averages, as both Steady and Josh are going to be nigh-on unbeatable around their own circuit. In any case, it's noticable nearly all those raising "concerns" about Josh seem to be Tigers fans. The Scunny fans are very happy to be have Josh back again thank you very much. All the best Rob Edited April 9, 2015 by lucifer sam 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve55 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 In any case, it's noticable nearly all those raising "concerns" about Josh seem to be Tigers fans. The Scunny fans are very happy to be have Josh back again thank you very much.You're very welcome to him, when first at Sheffield he was a pleasure to watch, but in his last season he became rather blinkered and self centred IMO. Fighting it out with his own team mates to the point of almost colliding with them isn't my idea of entertainment! Nor did he do much for team spirit arguing with all and sundry in the pits. He did something similar the other week in the meeting at Sheffield in heat 13 when he went left on David Howe entering the third bend. Yes a 'dare devil' but I was glad to see the back of him at Sheffield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Given a choice of Stead or Auty it depends what the criteria were. A one of race, pick who I like but he has to win it? Stead. Sign based on average and entertainment? Auty. Josh is one of a handful of riders who I really enjoy watching ride and often, IMO, adds to a meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinh88 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Simon Stead everytime - no contest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cue Ball Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Not saying I don't like watching Josh, just saying he has a track record of being inconsistent - the fact he achieved over a 9 point average one year and is now back down to 7 says s lot. Personally I would pick Stead over him any day of the week if my team depended on 3 points to win a match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Erm, actually Josh very nearly averaged 9.00 in 2012, the same year he was the No 1 for a team which won the Premier League. And that was despite the fact he got off to quite a slow start that season – take away the first couple of months of 2012 and I suspect his average was in excess of 9.00. Whereas this year he has hit the ground running. Weird that there’s a conversation on here about whether Josh is a top man in the PL or not, a few days after he’s completely owned Simon Stead around the EWR. Remember Stead gated on him twice as well; Josh made him look silly from the back. He’s proved countless times he’s the man for a big Heat 15 at the EWR. I still can’t believe just how far he came from behind to beat Tyson Nelson on the final lap in 2013. That was a truly astonishing ride. He is one of the most entertaining riders I've ever had the pleasure to have watched. Looking forward to Josh having a great year in 2015 - he looks really pumped and ready for it. All the best Rob Personally, I think he's flattered to deceive too many times. Lets not forget that his contemporary in that Scunny team of 2006 has won the World Championship while Auty can't get a place in the top 5 of an EL side. Having said that, I would be very happy to be proved wrong. That ride in heat 13 on Monday was special, but its far from the first time I have seen something like that from the rider. One that was even better springs to mind in the play offs at EWR last year against Ipswich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Personally, I think he's flattered to deceive too many times. Lets not forget that his contemporary in that Scunny team of 2006 has won the World Championship while Auty can't get a place in the top 5 of an EL side. Having said that, I would be very happy to be proved wrong. That ride in heat 13 on Monday was special, but its far from the first time I have seen something like that from the rider. One that was even better springs to mind in the play offs at EWR last year against Ipswich. HT, a strange comparison. Josh is not Tai Woffinden, true, but neither is any other British rider. Woffy is exceptional. That's like saying Peter Karlsson is rubbish compared to Tony Rickardsson. Yes, Josh Auty is still in the Premier League at the age of 24.... but then again so is Simon Stead at the age of 32!! Personally, I don't see the problem in either case. If a rider is doing the job for his club, piling up the points and providing a great amount of entertainment at the same time, isn't that what club speedway is all about? Josh is a highly talented motorcyclist, who puts bums on seats, and is one of Scunthorpe speedway's finest-ever servants. I might be missing the point, but to me, that is the point. One thing you're quite correct on, is that those who attend the EWR on a regular or a semi-regular basis will have seen regular moves from Josh like that on Monday (I assume you mean Heat 11 rather Heat 13, although Josh did pass Stead in Heat 13 as well!), and that's why he is special. And maybe, HT, that's one reason we go there so many times during a season? To see moves like that? I think there's still time for Josh to become a regular part of the GB team and maybe be in the Grand Prix at some point. Time will tell if that happens. If it does happen, it will be great for him and I'll be chuffed for him. But to me, and I suspect to you as well, more important are the thrills he gives with his riding around the EWR? To me, that's what it is all about. All the best Rob Edited April 10, 2015 by lucifer sam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) There are two separate arguments here. Don't think too many people would dispute that he is one of the most exciting British riders to watch but by the same token there is a strong argument that he had been at the same level for some time and probably won't progress much further. I hope he does and at 24 he has time on his side but personally I can't see it. However as has been said he has a good career entertaining people at Scunny and that is a very important part of speedway. Edited April 10, 2015 by Gordon Bennett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 HT, a strange comparison. Josh is not Tai Woffinden, true, but neither is any other British rider. Woffy is exceptional. That's like saying Peter Karlsson is rubbish compared to Tony Rickardsson. Yes, Josh Auty is still in the Premier League at the age of 24.... but then again so is Simon Stead at the age of 32!! Personally, I don't see the problem in either case. If a rider is doing the job for his club, piling up the points and providing a great amount of entertainment at the same time, isn't that what club speedway is all about? Josh is a highly talented motorcyclist, who puts bums on seats, and is one of Scunthorpe speedway's finest-ever servants. I might be missing the point, but to me, that is the point. One thing you're quite correct on, is that those who attend the EWR on a regular or a semi-regular basis will have seen regular moves from Josh like that on Monday (I assume you mean Heat 11 rather Heat 13, although Josh did pass Stead in Heat 13 as well!), and that's why he is special. And maybe, HT, that's one reason we go there so many times during a season? To see moves like that? I think there's still time for Josh to become a regular part of the GB team and maybe be in the Grand Prix at some point. Time will tell if that happens. If it does happen, it will be great for him and I'll be chuffed for him. But to me, and I suspect to you as well, more important are the thrills he gives with his riding around the EWR? To me, that's what it is all about. All the best Rob Personally, I'd say its a very fair comparison. Both 15 year olds tipped massively for the top back in 2006, both banging in huge scores. At that time, there was no difference between the two. There most certainly is now. I'd point out that Stead has been an EL No 1 in his time, an EL heat leader for some years and a member of the GB WTC team. He still has a place in the top 5 of an EL side. In addition,I don't believe I have ever heard an adverse word about him (save when he scores poorly). The same most certainly cannot be said about Auty. The reason I go to Scunny (and I have been there more than any other) and why I think its the best track in the country is that it gives riders like Auty the opportunity to race. Exciting riders are pretty much anything but unless they are given the stage on which to perform, and EWR definitely does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cue Ball Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 There are two separate arguments here. Don't think too many people would dispute that he is one of the most exciting British riders to watch but by the same token there is a strong argument that he had been at the same level for some time and probably won't progress much further. I hope he does and at 24 he has time on his side but personally I can't see it. However as has been said he has a good career entertaining people at Scunny and that is a very important part of speedway. Spot on. Think anybody would have difficulty disputing him as an entertainer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Maybe we should use "The Entertainer" as his theme tune? or Robbie Williams.. "let me entertain you"..give me a rider who struggles to gate and still wins races over a rider who gates and go everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Some interesting comments. As for comparing Josh Auty and Tai Woffinden been unfair total rubbish. Both burst on to the speedway scene at the same time, both the same age and both finished with very similar averages. Both at the time looked set to be the future of British speedway. But look at what they went onto to achieve and the difference is vast. Tai has gone to take his talent to the next level, Josh has not and frankly apart from the one season that Lucifer Sam alludes to Josh has been a 7 point plus rider, he has not moved forward, and although yes he is a very entertaining and exciting rider I doubt we will ever see him be a top British rider and he will always be what he is now a decent Premier League heat leader. As for the Simon Stead and Josh Auty debate, come on has to be Simon Stead. Steady has average over 9 for most of his time riding in the Premier League. And in an age where you your number 1 rider rides the number 1 riding position, take a look at how many times Josh has ridden at number 1, not very often I think you will find. At the end of the day Josh Auty's attraction is his weakness, I love to watch coming from the back its entertaining, but the poor gating which leads to his inconsistencies leads to his lack of progress. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony The Tiger Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 HT, a strange comparison. Josh is not Tai Woffinden, true, but neither is any other British rider. Woffy is exceptional. That's like saying Peter Karlsson is rubbish compared to Tony Rickardsson. Yes, Josh Auty is still in the Premier League at the age of 24.... but then again so is Simon Stead at the age of 32!! Personally, I don't see the problem in either case. If a rider is doing the job for his club, piling up the points and providing a great amount of entertainment at the same time, isn't that what club speedway is all about? Josh is a highly talented motorcyclist, who puts bums on seats, and is one of Scunthorpe speedway's finest-ever servants. I might be missing the point, but to me, that is the point. One thing you're quite correct on, is that those who attend the EWR on a regular or a semi-regular basis will have seen regular moves from Josh like that on Monday (I assume you mean Heat 11 rather Heat 13, although Josh did pass Stead in Heat 13 as well!), and that's why he is special. And maybe, HT, that's one reason we go there so many times during a season? To see moves like that? I think there's still time for Josh to become a regular part of the GB team and maybe be in the Grand Prix at some point. Time will tell if that happens. If it does happen, it will be great for him and I'll be chuffed for him. But to me, and I suspect to you as well, more important are the thrills he gives with his riding around the EWR? To me, that's what it is all about. All the best Rob Am I missing something here? Where are there any seats at Scunthorpe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 between the two stands next to the referees box, where the old track shop used to be....all the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japser Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Although I know nothing about Josh apart from watching his fantastic skills on the track, surely for any rider who has these skills, to get to the top he needs some technical know how behind him. At 24 you don't really know much and unless you are part of a family who knows the game or lucky enough to bump in to someone who will pass on some info you won't progress much. Josh's gating kind of shows this up. All he needs is someone to show him how to set the bike and clutch up to suit a given surface. Its really just physics. If someone provided him up with some top engines and helped him get the set up right then I think he could get to the very top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Although I know nothing about Josh apart from watching his fantastic skills on the track, surely for any rider who has these skills, to get to the top he needs some technical know how behind him. At 24 you don't really know much and unless you are part of a family who knows the game or lucky enough to bump in to someone who will pass on some info you won't progress much. Josh's gating kind of shows this up. All he needs is someone to show him how to set the bike and clutch up to suit a given surface. Its really just physics. If someone provided him up with some top engines and helped him get the set up right then I think he could get to the very top.I am with you Japser the set up team the gearing (ect) there is a fine line between scoring 7 points or 12.?The ability is there 24 years old he has a few years ahead of him career wise never compare anyone to Woffinden that guy was such a talent.Tai could be World Champion two or three times i recon if you you asked Tai he would say that Josh is a good rider.Josh in a way reminds me of Ian Cartwright he could be a late developer, Ian was good odviously better than Josh but he kept going worked hard a real Brit.The Scunny fans are lucky to be able to see Auty everyweek, i really hope he can push on in his career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 josh needs top 5 elite league races to hone his skills against a better calibre of rider, steady has done this for years before being allowed to drop down,you could argue with a comparison with danny king, another tried elite league rider, josh asked every team if he could be in their main body on reserve money, but no one had the guts to take him on, hence why he is a fast track reserve.hopefully being at leicester will keep him hungry and have the regular couple of meetings a week he needs. dont forget it was only a couple of years ago josh was riding in cardiff.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 josh needs top 5 elite league races to hone his skills against a better calibre of rider, steady has done this for years before being allowed to drop down,you could argue with a comparison with danny king, another tried elite league rider, josh asked every team if he could be in their main body on reserve money, but no one had the guts to take him on, hence why he is a fast track reserve.hopefully being at leicester will keep him hungry and have the regular couple of meetings a week he needs. dont forget it was only a couple of years ago josh was riding in cardiff.. This week is a big week for Josh, he has Leicester tonight, Belle Vue away, Redcar,Away, Scunny home,Berwick away a testing time this is where Jasper is so right the set ups aquipment and team is so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cue Ball Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Just looked and in 2001 Steady, in a far far stronger Premier league, ended the season with a 10.16 average, he was 19 at the time. By 24 Steady was 3 times British under 21 champion. Josh is an awesome entertainer, but just dont see him ever being much more or less than he is now in terms of long term average. In terms of his technical knowledge I seem to recall being told that Eric Boocock tried to help him during his time at Sheffield and he just ignored the advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 By 24 Steady was 3 times British under 21 champion. I think he was three-time British Under-21 Champion by the age of 21. If he won any of them aged 22, 23 or 24, then something was a bit amiss. Anyway, the argument is becoming circular. Scunthorpe fans would prefer to have Josh Auty riding for them; Sheffield fans would prefer to have Simon Stead riding for them. Which suggests both are at the right clubs. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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