New Science Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I've already cheated as I have run the stats of purely for number of guests and it supports my theory the difference is negligible but the code to remove any double uppers missing due to riding for their other team will take a little longer and I was too lazy to do it last night. It does show at a quick glance though the figure show suggest there are no more injuries now than last year, the year before or even 2010. Yet amazingly even a blind man can see there are more! For an injury list that is normal according to you and your stats, the guys on Sky tonight have talked about nothing else but injuries.Low and behold one hour into the first TV match and one team is down to 5 riders.Can't remember this being the norm,you can believe what your stats tell you but many on here believe that the injury count has risen significantly over the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 For an injury list that is normal according to you and your stats, the guys on Sky tonight have talked about nothing else but injuries.Low and behold one hour into the first TV match and one team is down to 5 riders.Can't remember this being the norm,you can believe what your stats tell you but many on here believe that the injury count has risen significantly over the last few years. You seem to be confusing anecdote and assertion with evidence. SCB is a fair minded fellow, if you can provide some evidence then I'm sure he would happily accept the theory (which is indeed plausible) that faster bikes are causing more accidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAMYAMBANDIT Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 For an injury list that is normal according to you and your stats, the guys on Sky tonight have talked about nothing else but injuries.Low and behold one hour into the first TV match and one team is down to 5 riders.Can't remember this being the norm,you can believe what your stats tell you but many on here believe that the injury count has risen significantly over the last few years. Statistics are usually made up of lies more lies and dammned lies, the Conservative party use them all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Statistics are usually made up of lies more lies and dammned lies, the Conservative party use them all the time. Statistics are extremely useful, if they are used in context and their limitations are properly understood. Statistics save lives (read the works of Ben Goldacre for numerous examples) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Arnieg and SCB, here's a question for you both. Did the introduction of lay-down machines circa 1996 increase the number of injuries? But did the introduction of air fences to the Elite League in 2004, some other PL tracks in the following years, and then all PL & NL tracks in 2014, then negate this increase i.e. do we have more incidents these days, but only the same number of injuries, due to the presence of air fences? All the best Rob Edited April 1, 2015 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) For an injury list that is normal according to you and your stats, the guys on Sky tonight have talked about nothing else but injuries.Low and behold one hour into the first TV match and one team is down to 5 riders.Can't remember this being the norm,you can believe what your stats tell you but many on here believe that the injury count has risen significantly over the last few years. So to confirm, you are going to ignore the number of injuries and in stead base it on "think", feel" and "opinion" when determining the number of injury. Yeah, right, good luck with that one! I'll give that one a go next time a client asks us for some data on a gas pipe line, I'll tell them I don't have exactly figures but I feel that things are "good" or "bad". While I agree that used incorrectly stats are bad (anyone who is facebook friends with me will know I'm often ranting out figures in news articles), used correctly they prove a point. Arnieg and SCB, here's a question for you both. Did the introduction of lay-down machines circa 1996 increase the number of injuries? But did the introduction of air fences to the Elite League in 2004, some other PL tracks in the following years, and then all PL & NL tracks in 2014, then negate this increase i.e. do we have more incidents these days, but only the same number of injuries, due to the presence of air fences? All the best Rob Couldn't tell you about anything that happened between 96 and 97 TBH. I only have stats for the last 4 years and back then I didn't pay enough to attention - I watched the GPs on tele and got dragged along to the odd meeting but certainly couldn't tell you who was and was not injured (I was 12 years old. I had far more important things to worry about!) So I won't comment. Edited April 1, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Arnieg and SCB, here's a question for you both. Did the introduction of lay-down machines circa 1996 increase the number of injuries? But did the introduction of air fences to the Elite League in 2004, some other PL tracks in the following years, and then all PL & NL tracks in 2014, then negate this increase i.e. do we have more incidents these days, but only the same number of injuries, due to the presence of air fences? All the best Rob We are thinking along similar lines - if the hypothesis about faster bikes is correct then those periods when technical changes produced a step change in the speed of racing (e.g. periods when lots of track records got broken) would show higher injury rates. I haven't got any data on laydowns, but I think a case could be made looking at four-valves and the rash of fatalities in the decade that followed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 We are thinking along similar lines - if the hypothesis about faster bikes is correct then those periods when technical changes produced a step change in the speed of racing (e.g. periods when lots of track records got broken) would show higher injury rates. I haven't got any data on laydowns, but I think a case could be made looking at four-valves and the rash of fatalities in the decade that followed. I posted something a few weeks back on the same thing. The four valvers were a completely different ride to a 2 valve Jawa because of the massively increased revs. In the hands of inexperienced riders 4 valvers caused many accidents but with experience they are easier (and safer to ride). On a two valve machine probably 80% of the rear wheel speed = mph whereas on a 4 valver it is a lot lower %. This meant the throttle didn't react at all like it did on a two valve machine. On mid bend if you knocked the throttle back on a two valve Jawa you stopped pretty darn quick. Do the same on a Weslake and the immediate reaction to shutting the throttle is a momentary increase in forward momentum as that excess rpm gets a grip and drives the bike forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I've been thinking, Greg Hancock may have scored 140 points in the GPs last season but sods the stats. I think Henning Bager was the real World Champion. He's a loverly guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 For an injury list that is normal according to you and your stats, the guys on Sky tonight have talked about nothing else but injuries.Low and behold one hour into the first TV match and one team is down to 5 riders.Can't remember this being the norm,you can believe what your stats tell you but many on here believe that the injury count has risen significantly over the last few years. Well I can remember Wolves losing 4 riders in the space of a week to season ending injuries in 1993. Ronnie Correy, Graham Jones, Charles Ermolenko and Phil Ashcroft. As for 'believing what SCB's stats' tell him... you can believe that Kings Lynn won last night, but I think Lakeside won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Well I can remember Wolves losing 4 riders in the space of a week to season ending injuries in 1993. Ronnie Correy, Graham Jones, Charles Ermolenko and Phil Ashcroft. As for 'believing what SCB's stats' tell him... you can believe that Kings Lynn won last night, but I think Lakeside won. Despite losing TWO Riders through - injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Despite losing TWO Riders through - injury. One of them without even crashing so the point is??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Despite losing TWO Riders through - injury. I won £350 last night betting on speedway. As last night was so representative of life I'm off to quit my job as I'm going to make £2450 a week gambling as my new job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I won £350 last night betting on speedway. As last night was so representative of life I'm off to quit my job as I'm going to make £2450 a week gambling as my new job. Bet you a tenner you don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) One of them without even crashing so the point is??? What caused Porsing's original knee injury? Did he fall down the stairs? .................................................... and your point is? Edited April 1, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 What caused Porsing's original knee injury? Did he fall down the stairs? .................................................... and your point is? My point is there have always been injuries in speedway. Not entirely sure what yours is, other than you saw a match where someone fell off. Is that something not seen in the old days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 My point is there have always been injuries in speedway. Not entirely sure what yours is, other than you saw a match where someone fell off. Is that something not seen in the old days? My point is that there seems to be more injuries than there ever used to be in the 'old days' so early in the Season. Hence my claim that current day Bikes and Tracks are not ideally suited to each other. There were injuries back in the Seventies - yes - but not so many and not so early. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 My point is that there seems to be more injuries than there ever used to be in the 'old days' so early in the Season. Hence my claim that current day Bikes and Tracks are not ideally suited to each other. There were injuries back in the Seventies - yes - but not so many and not so early. Spot on ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 My point is that there seems to be more injuries than there ever used to be in the 'old days' so early in the Season. Hence my claim that current day Bikes and Tracks are not ideally suited to each other. There were injuries back in the Seventies - yes - but not so many and not so early. Nonsense. As long as I can remember there have been injuries early season, mid season and late season, often pretty bad ones 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Because of this site and social media etc, you tend to hear about the injuries more . In "the good old days ( where TWK et al live) by the time the carrier pidgeon had brought the news of an injury the guy was back on track . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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