SCB Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 You saw him didn't you?Week in week out.Not some once a year guy who won't listen,I'll listen what did you think and those who saw him week in week out and the people who dealt with him.Very professional I heard took it to another level at junior level in Denmark.I'm listening Weird thing is I remember his debut and him scoring 0000 at Ipswich and all the Bees fans asking, "wheres this wonder kid". Then he scored 3 and 4 in his first 2 home meetings and we were all scratching our heads. Then bang, his 3rd home meeting he score a load of point against Oxford then a few weeks later did the same vs Poole. He spent the whole season in the 1-5 as I pointed out at the start of the thread. Hey, it's ok, I remember all this stuff. Sidney barely knows who he is. I think we should bow to his ignorance and ignore my knowledge Risager at 16 average over 6 in the EL didn't happen, he wasn't highly rated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 When did anyone say he was rated higher than them ? What does it matter what you saw ....What people said was that Risager could be future World Champion at 16 and the new Hans ....it's not up for debate it was a fact .And how many riders have we said that about? not fact an opinion no more no less did you ever think he would be on the level with Nielsen surely not.And did you ever see a young Knudsen( under mentor Olsen)? probably not,Briggo put forward Sumner McKnight and how poor was he had the press and gossip said he was a star he was decent but it never quite happened for him in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) And how many riders have we said that about? not fact an opinion no more no less did you ever think he would be on the level with Nielsen surely not.And did you ever see a young Knudsen( under mentor Olsen)? probably not,Briggo put forward Sumner McKnight and how poor was he had the press and gossip said he was a star he was decent but it never quite happened for him in England. Whoops!!! There you go sid,you are now agreeing with us.It doesn't matter whether they go n to win a world championship or not.No-one can really tell.But people rate riders highly and most fail.Risager was one whether you remember or not Zabik and Bridger were also highly rated and got nowhere Edited March 12, 2015 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 And don't forget SCB, he provided those FACTS that supported the argument. Oh and me too because I also recall Risager was very highly rated. Do you see a pattern emerging? Surely in your lifetime you have heard that certain riders are highly rated? do you not judge them when you see them ride? Then make a judgement Veijo T? the Finn at Swindon did ok at Eastbourne was highly rated was totally inept at Swindon.2We had all heard that Risager was highly rated but he was light years behind the riders i have mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 And how many riders have we said that about? not fact an opinion no more no less did you ever think he would be on the level with Nielsen surely not.And did you ever see a young Knudsen( under mentor Olsen)? probably not,Briggo put forward Sumner McKnight and how poor was he had the press and gossip said he was a star he was decent but it never quite happened for him in England. You said that it was not a fact that people said he rated very highly ..Everyone has now told you that was a fact ..Seeing Knudsen ride or how good Briggo said Summer McKnight was has zero to do with that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Whoops!!! There you go sid,you are now agreeing with us.It doesn't matter whether they go n to win a world championship or not.No-one can really tell.But people rate riders highly and most fail.Risager was one whether you remember or not Zabik and Bridger were also highly rated and got nowhere I am not agreeing my memory is poor as you have told me,i remember Risager being rated but he was never ever in the same parish as the three i have named that's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Tommy Knudsen averaged 6.41 at 18. Hans Neilsen averaged 7.25 at 17 Morten Risager averaged 6.10 at 16 Who do we all think at 16-18, looking at them numbers would have been more highly rated? I don't think it took any sort of leap of faith to assume a 16 year old averaging 6.1 could be looking at 7.25 at 17. Making Risager and Neilsen of a similar level at 16. With 2 extra seasons Knudsen only found a third of a point extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) I am not agreeing my memory is poor as you have told me,i remember Risager being rated but he was never ever in the same parish as the three i have named that's my point. Yes,but it isn't a point worth making.Hancock or Holder were never rated as highly as Lee,but they still became champions.No-one has to be rated as high as Lee to be thought of as a future world champ.Lambert doesn't have to be rated as high as Lee and he still could make a title.Mauger wouldn't have been rated as highy as Lee at 17,but how many titles did he win? Edited March 12, 2015 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I think Risager would have gone on to be World class but for injuries. That 1st leg break set him back and never really recovered from picking up further injuries along the way which absolutely hammers confidence. This will be Lambert's test, recovery from injuries. Mental strength As I've said before, at the moment Lambert is a carbon copy of Chris Harris. Great to watch as a racer but can't gate for toffee. Time will tell, he may be a slow burner then bang in his top form from his mid to late 20's. Every rider is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I can add my vote to the 'Risager was highly rated/touted as a future world champ' side. The sport has had many like this and will always have them - only a very small minority will actually fulfil the prophecy. I remember Savalas Clouting beating Leigh Adams in the U21 qualifiers. Rather different careers thereafter!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 You said that it was not a fact that people said he rated very highly ..Everyone has now told you that was a fact ..Seeing Knudsen ride or how good Briggo said Summer McKnight was has zero to do with that .FACT you love the word i know more than you that Risager was highly rated was he as good as a young Lambert NO in my book.He was never as good as the three i have mentioned endless Danish riders over the years have been highly rated. Tommy Knudsen averaged 6.41 at 18. Hans Neilsen averaged 7.25 at 17 Morten Risager averaged 6.10 at 16 Who do we all think at 16-18, looking at them numbers would have been more highly rated? I don't think it took any sort of leap of faith to assume a 16 year old averaging 6.1 could be looking at 7.25 at 17. Making Risager and Neilsen of a similar level at 16. With 2 extra seasons Knudsen only found a third of a point extra. Please forget the stats Risager was not in the same league as those two also the league then was dying, that Nielsen average 7.25 was a real healthy figure in a decent league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 David Kujawa - 2001 World Under 21 Champion. Never did another thing. Rene Aas beat Tony Rickardson to 2nd in a World Under 21 Championship in about 1989, look at how their careers went. Just how good a rider is going to be cannot always be told from under 21 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) FACT you love the word i know more than you that Risager was highly rated was he as good as a young Lambert NO in my book.He was never as good as the three i have mentioned endless Danish riders over the years have been highly rated. Yet again that was not the point that was being made ...and yet again is has nothing do with now highly you rate anyone or if was as good as the other 3 or if Lambert is better than him at this stage or if you know more about speedway than me You said that he was not highly rated as everyone has told you he was . Edited March 12, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Tommy Knudsen averaged 6.41 at 18. Hans Neilsen averaged 7.25 at 17 Morten Risager averaged 6.10 at 16 Who do we all think at 16-18, looking at them numbers would have been more highly rated? I don't think it took any sort of leap of faith to assume a 16 year old averaging 6.1 could be looking at 7.25 at 17. Making Risager and Neilsen of a similar level at 16. With 2 extra seasons Knudsen only found a third of a point extra. perhaps for Sidney you could dig out some Brit examples in their teenage debut/early years. eg Howe(David and Ben) Clouting Nicholls Screen Loram Louis Havelock etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yes,but it isn't a point worth making.Hancock or Holder were never rated as highly as Lee,but they still became champions.No-one has to be rated as high as Lee to be thought of as a future world champ.Lambert doesn't have to be rated as high as Lee and he still could make a title.Mauger wouldn't have been rated as highy as Lee at 17,but how many titles did he win?Hancock/ Holder are poor examples as the people i know most of those always rated those two both were different eras to Lee and as a gage of talent Lee would be the worst example for anybody to judge themselves against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) perhaps for Sidney you could dig out some Brit examples in their teenage debut/early years. eg Howe(David and Ben) Clouting Nicholls Screen Loram Louis Havelock etc I know David Howe averaged 7.70 in the PL at 16 and 5.58 at 17 in the EL. Ben Howe stats suggest he wasn't ever "special" took him untl his 4th season to average 6 Clouting on 5.98 as a 17 year old but that was about as good as it got. Nicholls for 6.01 at 17 Loram average 5.08 at 16 and 7.77 and 19 Screen averaged 6.40 at 16 and by 20 was averaging 9.05 Ward averaged 6.68 at 18 in the EL. Edited March 13, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I see Sidney is making an utter tool of himself again. Risager was THE next big thing and as a Wolves fan I can remember being jealous they had secured his signing. As we know he had some injuries and never really kicked on after that. Once again Sidney is unable to distinguish what happened in later years when debating the ability of a rider at a young age. As for Lambert? He's a promising rider but... Absolutely nowhere near Joe Screen as a 16 year old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I see Sidney is making an utter tool of himself again. Risager was THE next big thing and as a Wolves fan I can remember being jealous they had secured his signing. As we know he had some injuries and never really kicked on after that. Once again Sidney is unable to distinguish what happened in later years when debating the ability of a rider at a young age. As for Lambert? He's a promising rider but... Absolutely nowhere near Joe Screen as a 16 year old. I dont totally agree with you that Screen was better than Lambert AT 16. Ther is know bigger Screen fan than me, yes Screen was outstanding at 16 but i think Lambert is by far more polished at the same age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I see Sidney is making an utter tool of himself again. Risager was THE next big thing and as a Wolves fan I can remember being jealous they had secured his signing. As we know he had some injuries and never really kicked on after that. Once again Sidney is unable to distinguish what happened in later years when debating the ability of a rider at a young age. As for Lambert? He's a promising rider but... Absolutely nowhere near Joe Screen as a 16 year old. Thanks for that,but believe me there is no bigger one than you,when i think of you the old Stevie Wonder record comes to mind He's Misstra Know it all.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I know David Howe averaged 7.70 in the PL at 16 and 5.58 at 17 in the EL. Ben Howe stats suggest he wasn't ever "special" took him untl his 4th season to average 6 Clouting on 5.98 as a 17 year old but that was about as good as it got. Nicholls for 6.01 at 17 Loram average 5.08 at 16 and 7.77 and 19 Screen averaged 6.40 at 16 and by 20 was averaging 9.05 Ward averaged 6.68 at 18 in the EL. Thanks SCB. So just shows most of those around the same or better than Lambert average wise at that early age and the whole range from fade into obscurity to world champion within them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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