Best Ever Track?

[customhouseregular]

If that is where you feel a need to make research, this website could provide the answers you seek: http://speedwayinmemoriam.yolasite.com/

I certainly do not feel a need...I was merely picking up on a subject raised by another.

 

For me, one death is one death too many.

[Guest]

What a ridiculous statement.

 

Dusty Haigh and Paul Muchene fell and were hit by the following rider which could happen on any track.

I don't know what happened with Allan Clegg although I believe it was a Saturday training school accident.

 

I don't hold with all this 'dangerous track' talk.

 

It was a well prepared racers track which favoured the brave and produced great racing week in and week out.

 

Speedway deaths are always a tragedy and to mourn those who die is right. But there is a need to differentiate in regard to their happening -

was the track directly to blame or was the tragedy as a result of a racing accident?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Guest

[customhouseregular]

If a rider lost control and hit a stanchion or pit gate, the track is to blame.

 

If a rider hits a rut and crashes in to another rider, the track is to blame.

 

On a smooth track with an impact absorbing fence, any accidents are racing accidents.

 

Am I being too simplistic?.

[Terry]

 

Speedway deaths are always a tragedy and to mourn those who die is right. But there is a need to differentiate in regard to their happening -

was the track directly to blame or was the tragedy as a result of a racing accident?

From what I remember of Paul Muchenes accident he slid off and unfortunately the rider following was a very inexperienced junior named Nick Floyd, who was so shook up the poor lad retired soon after.

 

I remember the following week a rider falling off inches in front of Barry Thomas who miraculously managed to lay his bike down and avoid him, and thinking if only Paul had had a more experienced rider behind he would still be with us.

[Hebbs]

 

In the UK, very likely, but the Sydney Showgrounds must have claimed many many more lives

 

Using the link from gustix Hackney & Norwich have the joint most fatalities in the UK at 5 each. Worldwide Sydney Royale 16 & Sydney Sportsground 8 (not sure if these 2 venues are the same), Rzeszow (Poland) 9, Claremont Perth 8, Brisbane 7.

 

As a Hackney regular in the mid seventies I have to say the racing was great with many lines, and it is probably my favourite track.

[cityrebel]

I was a regular at the wick from 1970 until the demise of the london lions at the end of 1996. The track during the Len silver era did produce some excellent racing, but the safety fence was totally inadequate for the job. Things did improve safety wise during the kestrels period but the racing suffered due to the track alterations. The track changed completely again in 1995, but was a shadow of its former self. I do have many fond memories of hackney speedway, but most of these are pre 1984.

[norbold]

When I first mentoned Hackney and unwittingly started off this controversy, that was the period I was really thinking of - pre 1984.

[chunky]

 

Using the link from gustix Hackney & Norwich have the joint most fatalities in the UK at 5 each. Worldwide Sydney Royale 16 & Sydney Sportsground 8 (not sure if these 2 venues are the same), Rzeszow (Poland) 9, Claremont Perth 8, Brisbane 7.

This will explain a little more (the Showground was also known as the Royale)...

 

http://www.vintagespeedway.com/Sportsground.html

 

Steve

[cityrebel]

When I first mentoned Hackney and unwittingly started off this controversy, that was the period I was really thinking of - pre 1984.

great minds think alike!

[arnieg]

This will explain a little more (the Showground was also known as the Royale)...

 

http://www.vintagespeedway.com/Sportsground.html

 

Steve

And the plaque dedicated to those we lost

 

http://sboz.tripod.com/sydney%20royale.htm

[Falcon Hammer]

Re: Hackney being a dangerous track

 

Think there were generally more fatalities & serious accidents late 70s early 80s once the 4-valves took over. Guess tracks weren't ready for this

[The White Knight]

Re: Hackney being a dangerous track

 

Think there were generally more fatalities & serious accidents late 70s early 80s once the 4-valves took over. Guess tracks weren't ready for this

In my opinion - they still aren't. There has also been an increase in injuries since the advent of 'Lay Down' Engines too.

 

The Tracks are basically the same size and shape that they were back in the 1920s. The Bikes nowadays are totally different, and compared to the Bikes in those days a lot faster. You don't expect a 'Typhoon' Fighter to take off from a grass field like SE5As, Sopwith Camels, Spitfires and Hurricanes did, do you? Yet that is precisely what you are asking these new Bikes to do on Tracks that have not changed in some cases for 90 years.

 

It just doesn't make sense.

 

To me, it is little wonder that there are not more serious accidents.

[Tsunami]

In my opinion - they still aren't. There has also been an increase in injuries since the advent of 'Lay Down' Engines too.

 

The Tracks are basically the same size and shape that they were back in the 1920s. The Bikes nowadays are totally different, and compared to the Bikes in those days a lot faster. You don't expect a 'Typhoon' Fighter to take off from a grass field like SE5As, Sopwith Camels, Spitfires and Hurricanes did, do you? Yet that is precisely what you are asking these new Bikes to do on Tracks that have not changed in some cases for 90 years.

 

It just doesn't make sense.

 

To me, it is little wonder that there are not more serious accidents.

Interesting, but weren't cinder tracks looser and less predictable, that the smoother and slicker shale tracks of today.

 

BTW Re a previous post of yours, it was Peter Thorogood who prepared the track at Sunderland for Len.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Tsunami

[cityrebel]

Re: Hackney being a dangerous track

Think there were generally more fatalities & serious accidents late 70s early 80s once the 4-valves took over. Guess tracks weren't ready for this

that's a fair point dave. The three fatal crashes I have been unfortunate enough to see were in 1979, 1983 and 1984.

[chunky]

that's a fair point dave. The three fatal crashes I have been unfortunate enough to see were in 1979, 1983 and 1984.

It really does seem that there was a particularly bad era for on-track tragedies in the UK from the mid-70's to the mid-80's. I will do a little research and publish the findings.

 

Steve

 

Edit :

 

According to my records, there have been a total of 80 fatal accidents on British tracks, from 1928 to the present.

 

From 1928 to 1931, there were 18 fatalities on British tracks, including 6 in 1929, and 5 in 1931.

From 1932 to 1945, there were 7.

From 1946 to 1953, there were 22 (with 4 each in 1948 and 1953).

From 1954 to 1971, there were 10 (with 1956 having two - the only year with more than 1),

In 1972 there were 2.

From 1975 to 1984, there were 16 (with 3 in 1977 and 1983, and 2 each in 1975, 1979, 1982 and 1984).

Since 1984. there have been just 5 fatalities on British tracks.

Edited March 6, 2015 by chunky

[Guest]

It really does seem that there was a particularly bad era for on-track tragedies in the UK from the mid-70's to the mid-80's. I will do a little research and publish the findings.

 

Steve

 

Edit :

 

According to my records, there have been a total of 80 fatal accidents on British tracks, from 1928 to the present.

 

From 1928 to 1931, there were 18 fatalities on British tracks, including 6 in 1929, and 5 in 1931.

From 1932 to 1945, there were 7.

From 1946 to 1953, there were 22 (with 4 each in 1948 and 1953).

From 1954 to 1971, there were 10 (with 1956 having two - the only year with more than 1),

In 1972 there were 2.

From 1975 to 1984, there were 16 (with 3 in 1977 and 1983, and 2 each in 1975, 1979, 1982 and 1984).

Since 1984. there have been just 5 fatalities on British tracks.

Hopefully does this indicate an improvement in safety since 1985 onwards?

[waiheke1]

Not sure. There seemed to be a spate of career ending, or near career ending, injuries in the late 80s and early 90s.

joe owen, gundersen, jonsson, jan o, cross, knudsen, ermolenko etc

I think the introduction of air fences has arguably been the biggest single factor in reducing fatal or near fatal injuries. And of course advances in medical treat ment and generally improved h&s.

[oldace]

In my opinion - they still aren't. There has also been an increase in injuries since the advent of 'Lay Down' Engines too.

 

The Tracks are basically the same size and shape that they were back in the 1920s. The Bikes nowadays are totally different, and compared to the Bikes in those days a lot faster. You don't expect a 'Typhoon' Fighter to take off from a grass field like SE5As, Sopwith Camels, Spitfires and Hurricanes did, do you? Yet that is precisely what you are asking these new Bikes to do on Tracks that have not changed in some cases for 90 years.

 

It just doesn't make sense.

 

To me, it is little wonder that there are not more serious accidents.

 

 

Up to and including the JAP engine a speedway bike revved at possibly half the revs of a modern engine. The JAP, in particular was good at generating straight line speed but it didn't want to go round corners, the lack of revs gave it a tendency to want to drag you out near the fence, especially on the deeper tracks of the day. It had to be laid very low to get round bends

 

The advent of the 4 valvers gave riders massively more rpm (not necessarily mph) and were a totally different beast to ride and in the hands of inexperienced riders could cause more accidents.

 

Those extra revs though make the bike much easier (and therefore safer) to ride.

 

As times have gone on new short stroke motors with super lightweight flywheels mean the bikes have a very limited power band, it will only work right at the top of its revs and it takes very little in the way of dirt on the track to kill the motor and therefore point the rider the wrong way.

[chunky]

Not sure. There seemed to be a spate of career ending, or near career ending, injuries in the late 80s and early 90s.

joe owen, gundersen, jonsson, jan o, cross, knudsen, ermolenko etc

I can't recall the exact circumstances of most of those mentioned, but of course, Erik Gundersen's crash had nothing to do with fences or other safety measures; it was just a racing accident, of which I have seen many.

 

It was mentioned earlier in the thread about the tracks "being to blame". What I feel is that, as speedway has drifted away from "dirt-track racing" to slick tracks and "blue grooves", more riders are hitting the fence than ever before. Just my opinion...

 

Steve

[Falcon Hammer]

 

The advent of the 4 valvers gave riders massively more rpm (not necessarily mph) and were a totally different beast to ride and in the hands of inexperienced riders could cause more accidents

Good point Oldace, think quite a lot of the fatalities at that time were novices