Tampere Gp

[Terry]

 

I've slowly been becoming less interested in the GPs myself lately. These 2 'mishaps' haven't helped, but even before that, I have completely forgotten a GP was on until I saw something or other on Facebook, or on the internet somewhere.

That being said, it is worth remembering that we have lost, for one reason or another, 3 of the most exciting Grand Prix riders in recent times - messrs Ward, Sayfutdinov and Gollob. Sure there are some exciting races still, but every now and again, those riders were capable of pulling off a 'Wow' ride. I look at the current lot and apart from Nicki, there's not many great entertainers. (Harris can entertain in EL, but less so @ GP level).

Fundamentally, I think the GP series desperately needs riders like Ward and Sayfutdinov back in there as soon as possible.

 

Totally agree, there's a distinct lack of entertainers in this years line up apart from Nicki as you say.

Chris Holder used to be brilliant to watch a few year ago, but he seems to ride pretty cautiously now. Although I guess you can't blame him after all his injuries.

 

Say what you like about Darcy Ward but the sooner he, Sayfutdinov, Grigory Laguta and Kildemand are back in the gp's the better.

 

I just love watching exciting riders.

 

I still miss Mark Loram!

[HenryW]

Say what you like about Darcy Ward but the sooner he, Sayfutdinov, Grigory Laguta and Kildemand are back in the gp's the better.

 

Well from what has been written, two of the four you mention were available and interested in taking part in the series but were overlooked by BSI when they came to selecting the final four places.

[Terry]

I know Kildemand wanted a place but I wasn't aware Laguta was overlooked, shame.

[waiheke1]

I know Kildemand wanted a place but I wasn't aware Laguta was overlooked, shame.

Tbf, laguta didn't enter the gp qualifiers, refused to ride swc and potentially(?) has visa issues. So I can understand why he was overlooked despite being worthy of a place on merit.

Killer was unlucky, was a 50/50 call between him and mjj imho

[Humphrey Appleby]

Killer was unlucky, was a 50/50 call between him and mjj imho

Qualification should be on merit, and not on the basis of hand-picking.

 

Countries staging GPs should also be required to ensure that all qualified riders are allowed to ride there. You're never heard of competitors being banned from the Olympics or World Cup because they come from a dodgy country.

[Ghostwalker]

It is just rumours but I think Laguta declined to ride in the SGP.

[f-s-p]

It is just rumours but I think Laguta declined to ride in the SGP.

Well it's not rumours that BSI was not interested in his services. Cant remember was it autumn 2013 or 2014, but thats wgat Olsson said in an interview in a Swedish paper at the time.

 

And why should they, even when speedway is turning in to a circus of some sort at the moment, fundamentally it's still a sport. You need to be in it to win it and when was Laguta last been in it (qualifiers)?

[Ghostwalker]

And why should they, even when speedway is turning in to a circus of some sort at the moment, fundamentally it's still a sport. You need to be in it to win it and when was Laguta last been in it (qualifiers)?

 

I don't know, 3-4 years ago or something like that but sure I agree with your point.

 

However how many of the current and past GP-riders have tried to qualify and how many have been seeded into their first SGP season without bothering about qualifications?

Darcy Ward? Chris Holder? Emil S? Chris Harris? Andreas Jonsson? Freddie Lindgren?

[fatface]

I'm still convinced the old World Championship was run into the ground by the FIM who wanted to make a case for a GP series. Even during its latter days, the World Final in the Munich Olympic Stadium pulled nearly 50K fans, whilst attendances at Ullevi and Wroclaw were very respectable by today's standards.

 

So which GPs are being held at Leszno and Belle Vue? It may have been bigged up as a motivation, but I very much doubt Belle Vue was built on the back of a promise of a GP. Polish cities may be willing to subsidise speedway for prestige reasons, but you don't stage GPs if you expect to make money - certainly not on the scale of recouping stadium building costs.

 

And with the greatest of respect, I wouldn't really put the 'National Speedway Stadium' up there as a prestigious big city venue yet...

 

I certainly don't recall Munich being a roaring success with 50k fans there. But I would be interested to see evidence otherwise from an old cutting? It is a strange example to cite as a defence of the one-off event. It was arguably the worst field ever, with the worst ever racing.

 

I didn't say GPs at Leszno and Belle Vue, so that's a misquote. I did say World Championships - taking into account GP and SWC. I stand by the argument the cornerstone of new stadiums have been the promise of World Championships speedway. For example, I've been to the Torun GP twice. Tickets for the actual speedway were over £100 each for my dad and I. It's a chunk of money, but it's a one-off treat and to these speedway fans, entertainment-wise it is a really high quality night out.

 

Each time it has been a 15,500 sell-out. I don't know the prices of regular league fixtures, but I reckon they're a fair bit cheaper. As a conservative estimate I'd say the Torun GP generates the same gate receipts than at least 10 league fixtures do...most probably more. And that's just gate receipts. That doesn't take into account beers, food, merchandise, hospitality packages, programme sales etc bought by those 15k people.

 

Add to that the accomodation, eating out, shopping, visitor attractions costs over the three days and that's probably at least another £500 between us into the local economy. Would I ever go to Torun were it not hosting a GP? Never in a million years. There are thousands more visitors like me. Add it up, that's a lot of zlotys. I've not even touched upon the value of media profile, extra sponsorship income.

 

Now, think again, would stadiums like this ever be built and supported by the city council had it not been hosting World Championship speedway?

 

Belle Vue will be exactly the same. Sure, they need to have a regular bread and butter income. But World Championship speedway is the real sweetener that gets projects like this moving. Manchester City Council are very unlikely to have invested so heavily without any promise of it otherwise. I don't say Belle Vue will hold a GP (though I wouldn't entirely rule it out), but you can be sure they will host the SWC final within a couple of years of opening and at least one SWC event every year thereafter.

Edited May 20, 2015 by falcace

[waiheke1]

Tbh an England gp would sell out at belle vue and doubt it would impact negatively on Cardiff attendance. Would surely be profit making for bsi and make moslre sense, commercially and speedway wise, than say Tampere or a second Swedish gp

[racers and royals]

I certainly don't recall Munich being a roaring success with 50k fans there. But I would be interested to see evidence otherwise from an old cutting? It is a strange example to cite as a defence of the one-off event. It was arguably the worst field ever, with the worst ever racing.

 

I didn't say GPs at Leszno and Belle Vue, so that's a misquote. I did say World Championships - taking into account GP and SWC. I stand by the argument the cornerstone of new stadiums have been the promise of World Championships speedway. For example, I've been to the Torun GP twice. Tickets for the actual speedway were over £100 each for my dad and I. It's a chunk of money, but it's a one-off treat and to these speedway fans, entertainment-wise it is a really high quality night out.

 

Each time it has been a 15,500 sell-out. I don't know the prices of regular league fixtures, but I reckon they're a fair bit cheaper. As a conservative estimate I'd say the Torun GP generates the same gate receipts than at least 10 league fixtures do...most probably more. And that's just gate receipts. That doesn't take into account beers, food, merchandise, hospitality packages, programme sales etc bought by those 15k people.

 

Add to that the accomodation, eating out, shopping, visitor attractions costs over the three days and that's probably at least another £500 between us into the local economy. Would I ever go to Torun were it not hosting a GP? Never in a million years. There are thousands more visitors like me. Add it up, that's a lot of zlotys. I've not even touched upon the value of media profile, extra sponsorship income.

 

Now, think again, would stadiums like this ever be built and supported by the city council had it not been hosting World Championship speedway?

 

Belle Vue will be exactly the same. Sure, they need to have a regular bread and butter income. But World Championship speedway is the real sweetener that gets projects like this moving. Manchester City Council are very unlikely to have invested so heavily without any promise of it otherwise. I don't say Belle Vue will hold a GP (though I wouldn't entirely rule it out), but you can be sure they will host the SWC final within a couple of years of opening and at least one SWC event every year thereafter.

Just to clarify one thing-yes the main stand at the Torun GP is expensive but just yards away on the run to and on the 1st bend tickets are approx. £30 and 3rd bend are even cheaper.

[fatface]

Just to clarify one thing-yes the main stand at the Torun GP is expensive but just yards away on the run to and on the 1st bend tickets are approx. £30 and 3rd bend are even cheaper.

Thankyou. Yes, they were main stand tickets. Still, taking into account the more expensive seats for the GP for every ticket and it being a complete sell-out, I think we can agree gate receipts are massively higher than for a regular league fixture.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I certainly don't recall Munich being a roaring success with 50k fans there.

The capacity of the stadium was close to 70,000, and the stadium was fairly full from my recollection (and I was there). I see to remember the attendance being reported as being more than 50,000, but even assuming normal speedway exaggeration, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility.

 

It is a strange example to cite as a defence of the one-off event. It was arguably the worst field ever, with the worst ever racing.

Where am I defending it? The fact remains though, that despite attempts by SGP adherents to re-write history, latter World Finals held in decent stadiums had comparable if not better crowds than today.

 

As a conservative estimate I'd say the Torun GP generates the same gate receipts than at least 10 league fixtures do...most probably more.

Yes, but you're forgetting they also have to pay BSI a hefty fee to stage a GP, and possibly also the track as well. The figures leaked about Gorzow were eye watering.

 

Add to that the accomodation, eating out, shopping, visitor attractions costs over the three days and that's probably at least another £500 between us into the local economy.

Which is why councils subsidise GPs, but none of this goes to speedway and almost none to the council and the cost of building stadiums runs into millions.

 

Would I ever go to Torun were it not hosting a GP? Never in a million years. There are thousands more visitors like me. Add it up, that's a lot of zlotys. I've not even touched upon the value of media profile, extra sponsorship income.

This is of course the assumption, but there's actually been various independent studies that dispute the value of these sorts of events. The number of non-locals attendees staying in the town is usually a relatively small percentage of the total, and they can displace spending of non event going locals who avoid the city on event days.

 

It probably depends on the event and place, but I think it more likely that Torun's stadium was built on the back on the popularity of league speedway in the city. After all, you can't guarantee you'll even a GP for more than a few years at time, and certainly not a SWC more than occasionally.

 

Manchester City Council are very unlikely to have invested so heavily without any promise of it otherwise.

I didn't think Manchester City Council invested anything - they loaned the money didn't they, and I'm sure a number of people on here questioned how Belle Vue ever expect to repay the loan. I'd be surprised if Manchester City Council really loaned the money on the back of a promise of a GP or SWC though, unless they're totally inept at doing due diligence checks.

[racers and royals]

Thankyou. Yes, they were main stand tickets. Still, taking into account the more expensive seats for the GP for every ticket and it being a complete sell-out, I think we can agree gate receipts are massively higher than for a regular league fixture.

Certainly wouldn`t disagree- I have been to Torun for a league match and would wholeheartedly recommend going to a Polish league match. I reckon one could actually do one on a "day trip" - out early morning back late evening. Edited May 20, 2015 by racers and royals

[Jacques]

Tbh an England gp would sell out at belle vue and doubt it would impact negatively on Cardiff attendance. Would surely be profit making for bsi and make moslre sense, commercially and speedway wise, than say Tampere or a second Swedish gp

 

For me you can't beat Cardiff, but I don't doubt that I would go to one at the National Stadium..

[customhouseregular]

Tbh an England gp would sell out at belle vue and doubt it would impact negatively on Cardiff attendance. Would surely be profit making for bsi and make moslre sense, commercially and speedway wise, than say Tampere or a second Swedish gp

I don' t think there is any doubt an English GP in Manchester would be a sell-out. as would a SWC Final. Let's hope it comes to pass.

[weatherwatcher]

It would be far better to stage the GP's a SWC final or qualifing matches at Belle Vue, which by then would be a permenant track, that had been race on regulary. Far better that staging the GP's as they are now at Cardiff, on another of these tempory tracks, that always fail to hold up and give us some really great speedway.

Seen the way the track breaks up and forms ruts and furrows, that throw the riders all over the place. We don't need these tracks. All it ever boils down to is trying to get a crowd of 50,000 or around to line all those deep pockets. Because very little of those, earning, go into improving on the track quality.

So at least we can hope that by 2017 we will see it move to Belle Vue.

[fullbore]

How do you propose to get 40,000+ spectators into Belle Vue?

 

Niamh

[iris123]

 

Yes, but you're forgetting they also have to pay BSI a hefty fee to stage a GP, and possibly also the track as well. The figures leaked about Gorzow were eye watering.

 

 

 

 

It probably depends on the event and place, but I think it more likely that Torun's stadium was built on the back on the popularity of league speedway in the city. After all, you can't guarantee you'll even a GP for more than a few years at time, and certainly not a SWC more than occasionally.

 

 

 

That for me is where the argument falls down.Ok one or two Polish tracks could build a decent stadium with GPs in mind,but once you get to 4 or 5 then you have too much competition in your country to be assured of getting big meetings regularly.So the theory can't really explain the amount of tracks.And like I already mentioned Togliatti is "this sort of stadium" and hasn't held a GP.You then end up building a great stadium hoping to host GPs etc and and half decent stadium in another country i.e Vojens,Malilla or Belle Vue gets to host them instead because of the rota.........and like you say the calculations about how much money they must make from the GPs etc has forgotten all about how much they have to pay out to host them

[Triple.H.]

I don' t think there is any doubt an English GP in Manchester would be a sell-out. as would a SWC Final. Let's hope it comes to pass.

More importantly lets hope they do a Somerset and not a Leicester when it comes to the track