mrlincolncity Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Can someone tell me if bonus points are used to calculate a riders match average? Im sure they must be, if a rider scores 8+4 from his 4 rides thats a paid maximum. 12.00 would be his average if he scored that every week wouldnt it? Surely it wouldnt be calculated as 8.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Can someone tell me if bonus points are used to calculate a riders match average? Im sure they must be, if a rider scores 8+4 from his 4 rides thats a paid maximum. 12.00 would be his average if he scored that every week wouldnt it? Surely it wouldnt be calculated as 8.00 Both figures are usually published but for team building purposes that would indeed be 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlincolncity Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Blimey! Im shocked at that. But thanks anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Blimey! Im shocked at that. But thanks anyway Yes, but the team doesn't score the bonus points, so they would (and did) inflate the combined team average if included for team building purposes. Bonus points would generally inflate a declared 1-7 by about 5 points, but teams with better team riders would be penalised more. In the worst case scenario, a team could add 14 bonus points to its team average! For me, the scoring system in team speedway should be changed so that points are only awarded for beating opponents, then the problem of bonus points goes away. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Absolutely agree with that. For team events points should only be awarded for beating opposition riders, not your own team mates. Heat results would be 4-0, 3-1 or 2-2, and it would not matter at all if a rider finishes ahead or behind his team mate, and bonus points are not needed anymore. Edited February 22, 2015 by Bavarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Absolutely agree with that. For team events points should only be awarded for beating opposition riders, not your own team mates. Heat results would be 4-0, 3-1 or 2-2, and it would not matter at all if a rider finishes ahead or behind his team mate, and bonus points are not needed anymore. That would blow the mind of most speedway fans though. Most promoters too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 That would blow the mind of most speedway fans though. Most promoters too! You would have people insistent that it's 'ruined the sport'.. that it's not as 'fair' as the old system.. and it makes the sport look mickey mouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 You would have people insistent that it's 'ruined the sport'.. that it's not as 'fair' as the old system.. and it makes the sport look mickey mouse. I wonder who that could be? :unsure: :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lee Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 For me, the scoring system in team speedway should be changed so that points are only awarded for beating opponents, then the problem of bonus points goes away. 'Strewth ! That's so blindingly obvious - why has no-one thought of it before (including myself in half a century watching speedway)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I wonder who that could be? :unsure: :D I think you would be intelligent enough to realise that it wouldn't changed anything scoring wise WK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I think you would be intelligent enough to realise that it wouldn't changed anything scoring wise WK Nice reply BW. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 You would have people insistent that it's 'ruined the sport'.. that it's not as 'fair' as the old system.. and it makes the sport look mickey mouse. With the obligatory "friend in the pub" who couldn't stop laughing when he heard about this scoring system and vowed never to go while it was in place 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes, but the team doesn't score the bonus points, so they would (and did) inflate the combined team average if included for team building purposes. Bonus points would generally inflate a declared 1-7 by about 5 points, but teams with better team riders would be penalised more. In the worst case scenario, a team could add 14 bonus points to its team average! For me, the scoring system in team speedway should be changed so that points are only awarded for beating opponents, then the problem of bonus points goes away. In 1975 a new and simple scoring system which eliminated bonus points was presented to the BSPA by the late John Berry. Mr Berry was impressed when it was presented to him in his office at Foxhall, and subsequently took the said system to a meeting a few weeks later. Apparently, a copy was presented to everyone and sadly only two promoters took the time to even read it. That was the moment when i realised British Speedway in the long term was probably doomed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 While I've always considered that the way you win a speedway meeting is to beat 31 opponents rather than score 46 points, I can't help feeling a scoring system implemented on opponents beaten would further alienate speedway from the general public. 3-2-1-0 is dead simple. To say sometimes it's 2-2-0-0 and other times 2-1-1-0 is not so simple. Speedway should be marketed to the general public, not the statto geeks. Even if I'm one of those myself All the best Rob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiseguy Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 You would eliminate the long push home for the point by a fallen rider in a 3 rider race, then where would we be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 While I've always considered that the way you win a speedway meeting is to beat 31 opponents rather than score 46 points, I can't help feeling a scoring system implemented on opponents beaten would further alienate speedway from the general public. 3-2-1-0 is dead simple. To say sometimes it's 2-2-0-0 and other times 2-1-1-0 is not so simple. Speedway should be marketed to the general public, not the statto geeks. Even if I'm one of those myself All the best Rob EXACTLY!!! It is dead simple 3-2-1-0 and NO Double Points. I agree with you 100% LS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) While I've always considered that the way you win a speedway meeting is to beat 31 opponents rather than score 46 points, I can't help feeling a scoring system implemented on opponents beaten would further alienate speedway from the general public. 3-2-1-0 is dead simple. To say sometimes it's 2-2-0-0 and other times 2-1-1-0 is not so simple. Cricket is inherently complicated - the lbw law is notoriously complex, the scoring is not straightforward if you include all the different types of extras (explain the difference between byes and leg byes, and 5 wides to the uninitiated), and let's not even get started on Duckworth-Lewis! The offside rule in football and the erroneous 'away goals count double' is also not exactly simple, and yet both sports are followed by millions. Yes 3-2-1-0 is simple, but it creates problems with team racing, particularly with respect how to reward riders who team ride. I've also always thought it wrong that teams can gain a point by having both riders come last in a race. If a different scoring method was something people were used to, then it wouldn't be that hard to grasp. Would a points scoring system of 4-2-1-0 work so that no heat would be drawn and it would be highly unlikey that the match score would be a draw because of there been odd heats and it would only happen to be a drawn match if two rides fail to finish in one heat or another. Riders paid by the win second and third places and not by points scored. For me it would further reduce the concept of team speedway to individual racing, and even in a 4-3, the second and third riders might still want to defend against an opposition rider. There's nothing wrong with drawn heats and drawn matches in my book - it's the problem of adequately rewarding riders who team ride, but eliminating the inflationary effect (in terms of wages and averages) of bonus points. Edited February 24, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Is it really that complicated? For someone new to speedway all they need to know is that a point is awarded for every opposition rider beaten. For me that doesn't strike me as any more complicated than 3-2-1-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Team A wins 5-4 and away goals don't count double. I know, but idiot commentators and reporters keep saying it. Actually, I think the official UEFA regulations do refer to 'away goals counting double', but obviously only if teams score the same number of goals. Interesting though, there's an increasing body of opinion that the away goals rule should be abolished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Regarding abolishing away goals rule if the scores are equal then the team playing at home second as a big advantage with extra time and penalites if needed over the away team. Indeed, but it could be argued that's part of the luck of the draw, although for European competition, you could use group results and/or seedings to favour a particular team when deciding who plays at home in the second leg. Maybe away goals really should count double, just to give TWK a coronary... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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