SCB Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Lets be honest, the majority on this thread have said we find Hancock dull but respect and appreciate him. So I don't see how it's wrong. Personally I think anyone who likes a speedway riders because he's a nice guy and smiles border line mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Sidney, how do you think Olsen would have done in the GP format ? He'd win it easily afterall he does prepare the track I dread to think how good Mauger would have been in the GP format! Fair to say he dragged the sport into a more professional approach. But with todays no moving/kidology at the tapes a Mauger part of his game plan would be lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Midland Red, on 09 Feb 2015 - 6:43 PM, said: He doesn't get in my Coventry top ten either That's simply ridiculous. Read through this - http://www.coventrybees.co/memories - and you'll find him missing from quite a few lists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Midland Red, on 09 Feb 2015 - 6:43 PM, said: He doesn't get in my Coventry top ten either Read through this - http://www.coventrybees.co/memories - and you'll find him missing from quite a few lists that's us told then. Clearly olsen was well short of tge standard if the likes of hackett, Robson, matousek etc.or did ole refuse to give you an Autograph? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Surely the Olsen (not) in them Coventry teams comes down to, are we talking best riders, or riders you liked most. By average he should be in every Coventry top 7 ever produced. But if you didn't take to him for any reason then it's fine to leave him out I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Surely the Olsen (not) in them Coventry teams comes down to, are we talking best riders, or riders you liked most. By average he should be in every Coventry top 7 ever produced. But if you didn't take to him for any reason then it's fine to leave him out I guess. Spot on, but Midland Red appears to be using those lists as justification for Olsen not being in his BEST ever list of Coventry's top 10 riders... which is as I said, ridiculous.. and quite frankly makes his list worthless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritPete Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Olsen was a terrific rider and a great racer I remember him coming to Swindon and doing an amazing last to first.It makes no difference what Coventry fans think of him,his place in speedway history is assured. He had a lot of bad luck in world finals, many a time he beat his great rival when they met, only to suffer an e/f, or a fall to hand the title back to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 OK, OK! Olsen was a very good rider, but he didn't make my 10 best riders list - not because I never took to him, but because I rated the others above him - Briggo is in my list although I didn't like him either If it was a favourites list, then there would be other riders in my top 10 When I said, not in my Bees top ten, yes, that was a favourites list, and you can see I'm not alone in that thinking - a best Bees list would obviously include Olsen - and Hancock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I think Olsen is probably amongst the best 10 riders of all-time - I included him as the ninth rider in my list. He was actually a victim of his own success. Suddenly every Danish youngster wanted to be the next speedway superstar, and two of them (Nielsen and Gundersen) ended up not only emulating but surpassing Olsen's achievements. All the best Rob Edited February 10, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I used to think at the time (early 70s) that, on his day, Olsen was the best rider in the world but wasn't quite as consistent as Mauger and had more not so good days. I suppose it comes down to what you mean by best-ever. Is it who would win a race both being at their absolute best or is it who would win over a series of races? A bit like the difference between the old one off World Championship and the GP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 OK, OK! Olsen was a very good rider, but he didn't make my 10 best riders list - not because I never took to him, but because I rated the others above him - Briggo is in my list although I didn't like him either If it was a favourites list, then there would be other riders in my top 10 When I said, not in my Bees top ten, yes, that was a favourites list, and you can see I'm not alone in that thinking - a best Bees list would obviously include Olsen - and Hancock! That makes much more sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I suppose it comes down to what you mean by best-ever. Is it who would win a race both being at their absolute best or is it who would win over a series of races? A bit like the difference between the old one off World Championship and the GP I think thats where this argument always falls to bits. You could take every riders best ever, most close to perfect race. Or you could take their best ever, closest to perfect meeting or you could do the same for a season. Or, do you take it spread over a career. Greg, on a one off race, over a meeting even will be high up. But over a season or a prolonged period I think he dips. While Jason Crump with the same number of World Titles (3 each) wins on the longevity stakes for me (10 consecutive season on a World Championship podium is immense) but I'd also argue that when Crump won, he won it style - his one title he'd won in August (2006) and was so far ahead of the rest if was scary (First 7 GP results were 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 4th and then he won the title in the 8th) - while averaging 11+ in the EL (possibly the only rider to average 11+ in the "modern" EL? Adams had a few 10.5+ but never an 11 from memory) and blitzing everyone in the Polish and Swedish leagues too. Even Rickardsson never did that well in ever meeting over a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think thats where this argument always falls to bits. You could take every riders best ever, most close to perfect race. Or you could take their best ever, closest to perfect meeting or you could do the same for a season. Or, do you take it spread over a career. Greg, on a one off race, over a meeting even will be high up. But over a season or a prolonged period I think he dips. While Jason Crump with the same number of World Titles (3 each) wins on the longevity stakes for me (10 consecutive season on a World Championship podium is immense) but I'd also argue that when Crump won, he won it style - his one title he'd won in August (2006) and was so far ahead of the rest if was scary (First 7 GP results were 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 4th and then he won the title in the 8th) - while averaging 11+ in the EL (possibly the only rider to average 11+ in the "modern" EL? Adams had a few 10.5+ but never an 11 from memory) and blitzing everyone in the Polish and Swedish leagues too. Even Rickardsson never did that well in ever meeting over a season. Depends what you mean by 'modern' era.. If its after the nominated heat was introduced then Sam Ermolenko was 11+ in 1993. That was the most impressive season I've ever seen from a rider since we had nominated heats. Not only did he average 11+ but his team riding was unbelievable, there were times he nursed Neil Evitts home in times 2-3 seconds slower than the norm... ahead of good quality riders. Prior to the nominated heats then without a doubt Hans Nielsen in 86. In the mid to late 80's, even into very early 90's, Hans Nielsen was the only rider I genuinely 'feared'. By feared I mean that before the race began I really didn't think our riders had a chance of beating him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Prior to the nominated heats then without a doubt Hans Nielsen in 86. As someone who watched Nielsen regularly during his time, I would say Nielsen 87 shades Nielsen 86. The stats may say otherwise, but stats can lie a little. In 1987, Nielsen would have achieved a 11.87 BL average (surpassing the '86 BL average of 11.83), but for a seized engine causing a fall at Hackney in October. Nielsen in 1987 was just supremely confident. He was World Champion throughout the whole season, rather just the end of it, as in '86. His World Team Cup form, form for Denmark in the test series, in individuals, he just seemed to dominate every single meeting he was in. And talking of unbelievable team riding, Nielsen from this era was mind-bogglingly good. He could team-ride Jens Rasmussen to a 5-1.... over Erik Gundersen!! All the best Rob PS If Sam had continued his '93 form for another couple of seasons, he'd definitely be a contender for a place in the all-time top ten. Edited February 10, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 As someone who watched Nielsen regularly during his time, I would say Nielsen 87 shades Nielsen 86. The stats may say otherwise, but stats can lie a little. In 1987, Nielsen would have achieved a 11.87 BL average (surpassing the '86 BL average of 11.83), but for a seized engine causing a fall at Hackney in October. Nielsen in 1987 was just supremely confident. He was World Champion throughout the whole season, rather just the end of it, as in '86. His World Team Cup form, form for Denmark in the test series, in individuals, he just seemed to dominate every single meeting he was in. And talking of unbelievable team riding, Nielsen from this era was mind-bogglingly good. He could team-ride Jens Rasmussen to a 5-1.... over Erik Gundersen!! All the best Rob PS If Sam had continued his '93 form for another couple of seasons, he'd definitely be a contender for a place in the all-time top ten. Very fair points Rob, Nielsen was dominant in that period. ultra dominant. Sam was undone by re-breaking the leg in the penultimate match of the season. A very simple slide off too, but straight into a metal post behind the fence trying to round Tatum on the final bend. Cost Wolves the title that year and he was never quite the same rider again after that. Still good, but not the level he was in 93, his style had changed a lot. Having grown up in awe of Nielsen, then seeing Sams domination in 93, its why I never gave Tony Rickardsson the plaudits he perhaps deserved. To my mind he didn't live up to either Nielsen in the 80's or Sam in 1993. Regarding Sam, for him to have come back from the injuries he suffered in 89, and reach the levels he did is staggering. It's very rare for riders to do that.. there are countless cases of riders who after the 'big one' (or even less major injuries) aren't the same rider again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 A World title at 23 is always going to put you quite high up IMO. Especially when you win it with many injuries. But he still has 20 years left if he does a Greg and could win many title in that time - I see no reason why he can't win at least one more. Time will tell, but if Tai wins another 3 or more in his career he'll have to be right up there. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 talking of bad luck for olson was there a meeting on tv in the 70s where a helmet cover got stuck in his chain. think it was at white city or am I dreaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflyingkiwi Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Unfortunately and I would loved to be proved wrong on this one I don't think the likes of Woffinden, Holder Sayfutdinov et al will still be competing at 44. I think that Hancock's ability is the fact that he rarely gets injured unlike many of his colleagues, for me that puts him an all time great list. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritPete Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 talking of bad luck for olson was there a meeting on tv in the 70s where a helmet cover got stuck in his chain. think it was at white city or am I dreaming. I remember that.Maybe it was against Gordon Kennett? Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Did i say that please about 81,i did not but they were more than as you say just PROMISING back down my memory i think is better than yours. Nielsen/ Gundersen were more more than just PROMISING riders in 81,not that you watched Speedway that much then?.Simple question even for you were Nielsen/gpGundersen greats yes or no ? a simple question even for you as Lucifer said you are tying yourself in knots the two riders YOU brought up you are making yourself look foolish.Admit defeat you are talking crap about Nielsen/Gundersen did you ever see them at there PEAK.? No Gundersen and Nielsen were promising riders in 1981. They became legends later on. I dont get why you cant actually grasp what people are saying and just resort to abuse. Kelly Moran in 1979 Tommy Knudsen 1981 Lance King 1984 Kelvin Tatum 1986 Todd Wiltshire 1990 Gert Handberg 1992 Chris Louis in 1993 All the above (Moran was 4th) were promising riders same as Hans and Erik were in 1981 and all did better in the respective finals. It could very much easily be argued Knudsen was ahead of both of them in 1981 at the age of 19 i believe. So to start having a pop when quite clearly you are missing the point is just daft. Gundersen and Nielsen went on to be legends nobody is disputing that, but in 1981 they were good with potential but did anyone expect them to be better than Knudsen?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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