waiheke1 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Have to disagree sir h. I would say thr gp line ups are generally better than the old world final fields by some distance. Prettt much every year you were missing a couple of genuine title contenders in the final, as well as four or five no hopers making up the numbers. The 80s in particular (81 aside) the final was always missing some absolute top riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Have to disagree sir h. I would say thr gp line ups are generally better than the old world final fields by some distance. Prettt much every year you were missing a couple of genuine title contenders in the final, as well as four or five no hopers making up the numbers. The 80s in particular (81 aside) the final was always missing some absolute top riders. Yes, but you also had to fight your way through qualifying rounds, which often had just as good line-ups as (if not better than) the World Final. Edited February 6, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 No doubt I'm one of the few people still interested in the sport, who have seen all the greats that's been mentioned here, and like I said previously, the greatest would have to be argued. My memories of Fundin and Briggs was two of the best, who usually won. Also Mauger, the ultra professional, he would win every race. Mauger is probably the only rider capable of winning a race before it had started. His presence alone was enough to over shadow other riders. He didn't.t miss a trick. All three I remember well, but it was their results that made them stand out...... Not their exciting riding style.... To me the rider who provided the best excitement, Best overtaking, Never say die-attitude.. Was TONY RICHARDSEN......... The greatest of them all........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Speedway is a game of two halves. The first half is pre Ivan Mauger and the other half is from Ivan Mauger onwards. Most only had one bike and were working the rest of the week. Some riders even top scored with the track spare and even Ove Fundin won a world title on one. I spoke to Ove a few years ago about what he thought of speedway today. His first comment was that Ivan Mauger "ruined" the sport by making it too professional. He felt Ivan had taken all the fun out of it and turned it into a business where riders had to get the right backers, set up etc. and it became more about money and machinery than the rider. It is an urban myth that Ove Fundin won the world title on a track spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Mauger T rick fundin briggs nielsen crump moore olsen penhall hancock On a different day I might have greg as high as 8th or low as 15th. Another title and I'd have him at 6th, if he wins two more he'd enter discussions on best ever. Surely Gundersen has to be in there somewhere. If we're limiting it to ten, I would go for: Fundin Mauger Nielsen Briggs Gundersen Rickardsson Craven Moore Olsen Penhall Crump, Hancock and Pedersen, along with Young, Duggan, Wilkinson and Collins, would come in the next sub-group in positions 11-17. All the best Rob It is an urban myth that Ove Fundin won the world title on a track spare. Indeed. Fundin used to put "Norwich Track Spare No 2" on the back of his bikes as a bit of kidology. All the best Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Tin hat on...good at what he does...but Id rather watch paint dry than the Grin. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Have to disagree sir h. I would say thr gp line ups are generally better than the old world final fields by some distance. Prettt much every year you were missing a couple of genuine title contenders in the final, as well as four or five no hopers making up the numbers. The 80s in particular (81 aside) the final was always missing some absolute top riders. Yes, the final was always missing a few of the top guys, although arguably that could be taken as proof that there were more top guys around in those days. Pick any year from that era and I could give you around 25 worthy World Finalists for that year. And 25 into 16 (or 11, if you like, given the ICF/CF split, although let's give some credit to the likes of Egon Muller and Viktor Kuznetsov) doesn't go. Some riders did miss out - in some cases e.g. Bobby Schwartz, they never got there at all. Think about that. Transfer Schwartz's 1980 to 1984 form and he would waltz in the GP and stay in it for a few years. But between 1980 and 1984, he failed to qualify for a single World Final. A rider who won 3 FIM Gold Medals, and scored maximums in both the 1982 World Pairs and 1982 World Team Cup Final. But he couldn't reach a World Final. Boy, it was tough in those days. All the best Rob Edited February 6, 2015 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 im going to be in a minority here but I don't reckon gregs has boring a rider hes made out to be. Hes gating means ne doesn't have to come from the back in most races but ive seen him make many decent passes over the years 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackie Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 You can't help but admire Greg for his achievements. The longevity of his career at the top is unique and probably will be for some time. How good? Extremely good imo, but not the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 im going to be in a minority here but I don't reckon gregs has boring a rider hes made out to be. Hes gating means ne doesn't have to come from the back in most races but ive seen him make many decent passes over the years Greg isn't boring to watch. He can pass, while his team-riding is a delight to watch. Greg alongside Travis McGowan was a great sight. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 3 World titles PLUS...just look at all the stats from his GP's. With a GP round at least equivalent to a World Final his record is awesome. Nobody knows how well Mauger, Fundin, Briggs et al would have fared under a GP system, but Greg is right up there with them. Mauger was never exciting but Greg certainly can be. Possibly Greg can not be put alongside Mauger, Rickardson, Fundin, Briggs and Nielsen but he ranks alongside Olsen, Gundersen and Crump...in my opinion of course. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Mauger was never exciting but Greg certainly can be. Possibly Greg can not be put alongside Mauger, Rickardson, Fundin, Briggs and Nielsen but he ranks alongside Olsen, Gundersen and Crump...in my opinion of course. Don't see it really. I don't recall Hancock doing much in the World Final days, all of his successes have been under the GP system, and two of those have come in an increasingly declining era of competition. Mauger, Fundin, Nielsen, Olsen and Gundersen had to fight their way through tough qualifying rounds, and then pull it out in the Final as well. Rickardsson straddled the World Final and GP eras and did it in both, and in my opinion was up there with the very best, if not possibly the best. Hancock can only beat his contemporaries and anyone winning three titles is obviously a very good rider, but I wouldn't put him alongside Olsen and Gundersen in the pantheon of legends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Don't see it really. I don't recall Hancock doing much in the World Final days, all of his successes have been under the GP system, and two of those have come in an increasingly declining era of competition. Greg was only born in 1970, so he was only in two World Finals (93-94). He should have been in a third (92) but the Yanks made a highly controversial selection for their seeds for the Overseas Final and inexplicably left him out. Greg still rode for the USA in the World Pairs and World Team Cup that season. The US won both, with Greg beating Gary Havelock - who won the World Final later that season - in the run-off for first place in the World Pairs. Greg finished fourth in the '94 World Final. He was one ride away from winning the title, but finished third in that race. So his World Final record wasn't bad at all - one-near miss in two appearances, plus success in the other World Championships. In 1995, the World Final was due to be in England. Greg won the British GP at Hackney in 1995, which would have been the World Final had the Grand Prix system not been brought in. To me, in terms of the modern-day greats, he's third behind Rickardsson and Crump, and just ahead of Nicki P. All the best Rob Edited February 6, 2015 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hancock has been pretty lucky with injury in GP's compared to some also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Greg was only born in 1970, so he was only in two World Finals (93-94). Rickardsson by comparison is (slightly) younger, made four consecutive World Finals in the period 91-94, won once and finished second once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Rickardsson by comparison is (slightly) younger, made four consecutive World Finals in the period 91-94, won once and finished second once. But who has said Hancock is as good as Rickardsson? And as pointed out, Hancock would have had a great chance in '92 but for the incompetence of the AMA. He was flying that year, and beat the man who would be champ in a run-off in the World Pairs... All the best Rob Edited February 6, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hancock what an amazing career and still at the top of his game. I personally have never found him the most exciting rider, for me the most stylish rider was Olsen for a tall guy was so smooth and was breathtaking from the back in the 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Discussions as to who the greatest rider ever is should go no further than Mauger or Rickardsson. They have both won six World titles, that puts them ahead of everyone else. For me Rickardsson edges it, regardless of what anyone says it has to be harder to win a GP series then to win a one-off meeting where luck has a much bigger bearing no matter how good you are. TRick did both, Mauger naturally only ever raced in one off finals so only won those. Of course that is a debate for elsewhere. Hancock is a three time World Champion, in my book that places him level joint fifth in the list of all-time greats. The fact he is still going strong speaks volumes for his talent, to say that it is easier now is to do him a disservice. Last season he was consistently the best rider in the World, the fact that he wasn't in the era of Crump, Rickardsson and Pedersen's dominance shouldn't come into the discussion of whether he is an all time great or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Yes, the final was always missing a few of the top guys, although arguably that could be taken as proof that there were more top guys around in those days. Pick any year from that era and I could give you around 25 worthy World Finalists for that year. And 25 into 16 (or 11, if you like, given the ICF/CF split, although let's give some credit to the likes of Egon Muller and Viktor Kuznetsov) doesn't go. Some riders did miss out - in some cases e.g. Bobby Schwartz, they never got there at all. Think about that. Transfer Schwartz's 1980 to 1984 form and he would waltz in the GP and stay in it for a few years. But between 1980 and 1984, he failed to qualify for a single World Final. A rider who won 3 FIM Gold Medals, and scored maximums in both the 1982 World Pairs and 1982 World Team Cup Final. But he couldn't reach a World Final. Boy, it was tough in those days. All the best Rob No you wouldn't come up with 25 worthy World Finalists. You'd have a list, who apart from the top boys, would be full of riders of a lesser level who looked great because they were riding in a weak format and whom you rarely saw get beat. Schwartz would waltz into the GP's? Why would he? Based upon? He got a maximum in a World Pairs Final? That means he won 3 races of note in one meeting.. i.e. beating the Danes, English and the Aussies.. although you could only really call Sanders top class of the Aussie pair (Gary Guglielmi the other). The Finns, New Zealand and the Czechs.. nothing to write home about by beating them. As for the World Team Final... boy what a tough meeting that was! What with the mighty West Germany and Czechoslovakia being two of the four teams. You can just as easily point out storming meetings that riders such as Martin Vaculik, Bartosz Zmarlik, Troy Batchelor and Martin Smolinski have had in major events... none of them you would class as being amongst the 'big names'.... boy its tough these days... an EL reserve can win a GP less than 1 year later Back in those days you could finish joint 1st in a World Final without even racing in Europe, and having only had 1 years experience prior... That would never, ever happen now. Edited February 6, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Not only is Greg boring and has a fake grin he rode for O*ford and Reading . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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