pugwash Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Tom Farndon.... Don't start that again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) In Hancocks case, I'm not entirely sure it does prove it. Speedway is a sport where machinery/setup is at the very least as important, and arguably more important than actual riding ability. It seems in his later years Hancock has mastered this art. As with all motor sports, machinery plays a big part but I don't think that Greg's riding ability can be questioned. He has the tremendous ability to be able to perform at a consistently high level no matter what tracks conditions are like, whether big or small and very rarely gets out of control - that is pure motorcycling ability. Edited February 5, 2015 by SPEEDY69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Nobody likes a smart arse, you know! Anyway, I'm off to have some pork chops from my Greg Hancock Lean Mean Grilling Machine! Now i know I'm going dotty...I thought the comparison was between George Formby! Now i know I'm going dotty...I thought the comparison was between George Formby! Could not work out what Greg Hancock had to do with cleaning windows!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 In Hancocks case, I'm not entirely sure it does prove it. Speedway is a sport where machinery/setup is at the very least as important, and arguably more important than actual riding ability. It seems in his later years Hancock has mastered this art. It's surely not a coincidence that Greg's late career revival came with the introduction of the terrible silencers which changed so much in the way the bikes handled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's surely not a coincidence that Greg's late career revival came with the introduction of the terrible silencers which changed so much in the way the bikes handled. There's no substitute for age and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's surely not a coincidence that Greg's late career revival came with the introduction of the terrible silencers which changed so much in the way the bikes handled. Which IMO is an argument for how good he is. He can adapt to suit the machinery when others couldn't. I think it's more a case of TRick and Crump had gone and Nicki just isn't what he was, too many injuries -but, there is another point, TRick retired due to injury, Crump said he couldn't take any more injuries, Nicki has had a few nasty injuries but Greg, he's still going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Great a rider and personality Greg is, winning World Titles at 44 year old, against all the top young riders hardly makes Speedway an attractive sport for the risky youths that follow Red Bull type sports. If kids like Emil, Darcy, Tai, etc, could win it in the future, the sport would live up to the hype of it being a risk sport in the eyes of the impressionable youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Great a rider and personality Greg is, winning World Titles at 44 year old, against all the top young riders hardly makes Speedway an attractive sport for the risky youths that follow Red Bull type sports. If kids like Emil, Darcy, Tai, etc, could win it in the future, the sport would live up to the hype of it being a risk sport in the eyes of the impressionable youth. What hype? You've just hit on all that is wrong with speedway. It's rarely promoted that way, far more so as the 'family sport'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Great a rider and personality Greg is, winning World Titles at 44 year old, against all the top young riders hardly makes Speedway an attractive sport for the risky youths that follow Red Bull type sports. If kids like Emil, Darcy, Tai, etc, could win it in the future, the sport would live up to the hype of it being a risk sport in the eyes of the impressionable youth. I'm not sure I follow your reasoning Mr.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm not sure I follow your reasoning Mr.T. Well if young newcomers are looking for a thrill and dangerous sport, Greg winning it at 44 years old against the top young riders, hardly fits that image. BWitcher I quite agree. Sometimes making it cosy as a 'family sport' and with a winning 44 year old World Champ, goes against the thrill and dangerous image that others are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Well if young newcomers are looking for a thrill and dangerous sport, Greg winning it at 44 years old against the top young riders, hardly fits that image. BWitcher I quite agree. Sometimes making it cosy as a 'family sport' and with a winning 44 year old World Champ, goes against the thrill and dangerous image that others are looking for. Yeh. Get rid of the good old guys. We need to get with the times. Sex, drugs, booze, lawlessness. It's what all the young ones are doing these days. Edit. Err, sorry posted in wrong thread. Edited February 5, 2015 by pugwash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Tom Farndon....I think farndon faces three issues in terms of being recognised amongst the absolute greats.1. He didnt race in an era when there was a world championship, which is generally taken as the key measure of success 2. He was pre video footage being available to any large extent, so those of us who didnt see him race live cant hop on youtube and see how good he was (same applies to prerty much all ridera pre late sixties) 3. Not many still following the sport did see him live I think the first two are the key issues, so while you raised a concern about the likes of craven and moore being similarly "forgotten" im not sure they will because they were world champions. And from maugee collins etc. On there is pretry decent footage. Note: that's not to say he doesnt deserve to be acknowledged as one of the greats, just my thoughts as yo why he will often be missed from people's lists 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 One thing from this thread that really strikes home to me is Rick,Crump,Gollob were all capable of dominating an era.Crump was unlucky he should of won more titles and with Gollob's mega talent he should of as well.Those three names were one of the reasons that i often overlooked Greg, but his longevity is impressive and he has every chance of winning another title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Any rider who can win 3 World Championships has to be considered as a truly GREAT rider and Greg fit that description very well. It would be very difficult to place riders in order of brilliance, No doubt 100 people would place all riders in different orders.. Especial those from differing eras. Often wondered how well, riders like Mauger, Briggs would do today with far stringent rules we have.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Speedway is a game of two halves. The first half is pre Ivan Mauger and the other half is from Ivan Mauger onwards. When he arrived on the scene he gradually put Speedway on a much higher level His diet and food intake at times was too much . I know in one final which he did not win he was like a bag of bones. He eased off slightly after this and was back to full fitness again. He attention to his machinery was unbelievable and reached new heights not achieved before. So I would discount any rider before the pre Ivan era. Most only had one bike and were working the rest of the week. Some riders even top scored with the track spare and even Ove Fundin won a world title on one. Most of their bikes were very very ordinary. Then the numbers ones of all the teams was given the choices of gate positions in every race. so they could have gates one or four in every race they took part in. Another thing was the top riders only met their opposite number once in heat one in a league match and that was it , compared today when the top riders now meet two or three times in a meeting. No wonder they got such good averages. In the 1940/50s, the starts were simply appalling. All the riders would be going backwards and forwards at the tapes and pushing them so they nearly broke. There were very few re runs. No wonder people stopped going in the 1950, as it was so amateurish. Hans Neilsen said in the 80's "They have just ruined Speedway" What caused that outbreak was the new rule brought in saying a rider must not touch the tapes.Today the sport is much more professional than it ever was. so it is harder today. As with all sports the competitors get better every decade. Two years ago I would not have rated Greg Hancock but today I think he is the best. He is a triple world champion and won league medals in three different countries and has had top averages in these countries as well. Plus what a great ambassador for the sport. He also hold the record of racing in the most Grand Prixs It's quite funny that Ivan Mauger said after winning his last World Title " I do not think there will ever be another rider over 40 who will win the world title.again" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Mauger T rick fundin briggs nielsen crump moore olsen penhall hancock On a different day I might have greg as high as 8th or low as 15th. Another title and I'd have him at 6th, if he wins two more he'd enter discussions on best ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Mauger T rick fundin briggs nielsen crump moore olsen penhall hancock On a different day I might have greg as high as 8th or low as 15th. Another title and I'd have him at 6th, if he wins two more he'd enter discussions on best ever. Olsen certainly would be higher and no disrespect Tony is no way number two in my book he would be in a top six and i know he won six titles but i would put Crump/ Gollob on his level as well. Edited February 5, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Olsen certainly would be higher and no disrespect Tony is no way number two in my book he would be in a top six and i know he won six titles but i would put Crump/ Gollob on his level as well. I was a Crump fan but TRick had Crumps card marked. TRick really was something special, the guy was a machine. Only seen Mauger in video so it's not fair for me to judge him as I did see him every few weeks like I did Rickardsson but Rickardsson is easily the best rider I have seen in my 30 years, by a long way. Crump must hate the fact he rode when Tony was around as if he'd been 10 years older (or younger) he could have had a couple more titles IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I was a Crump fan but TRick had Crumps card marked. TRick really was something special, the guy was a machine. Only seen Mauger in video so it's not fair for me to judge him as I did see him every few weeks like I did Rickardsson but Rickardsson is easily the best rider I have seen in my 30 years, by a long way. Crump must hate the fact he rode when Tony was around as if he'd been 10 years older (or younger) he could have had a couple more titles IMO.Yes you are right Crump we all felt can he win it can he get over the winning line?.I still maintain Crump was the better rider,also others who know better than me Ricko had luck with the gates (ect) the rules in the GP then were different to now alot different.Ricko was not a rider i took too brilliant of course so i am bias,Crump and Gollob in his era for me were as good as him.Do you judge riders by titles i don't, Rickardsson has six titles but i would put Crump/ Gollob on his level and if you judged him against Briggs,Fundin,Mauger,he does well to get in the top six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Any rider who can win 3 World Championships has to be considered as a truly GREAT rider and Greg fit that description very well. Undoubtedly a good rider, but whether a true great I'm less sure of. I admire what he's achieved, almost without anyone noticing at times, but I don't think I'd put him up there with Nielsen (who admittedly won 4 titles), Olsen and Gundersen. Due to the general decline of the sport, I think there are generally fewer good riders around now than in previous years, and the SGP has made meant world titles can be won through consistency rather than having to pull performances out of the hat (which Gundersen excelled at). Yes, there's an argument that professionalism has increased in recent years, but I don't think recent SGP line-ups have been comparable to those of most World Finals, even taking into account the handful of Continentals who usually made-up the numbers. Technical standards may well have been rubbish in days gone by, but it was all relative and I'm not sure it was the case by 1980s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.