Grand Central Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) THAT was before a test match ... ... I think Think again.... 1972 World Final A well known story that has been mentioned and discussed many times over the years. On Forums and in Magazines. There was quite a lot written about it following the death of Tony Clarke last year. Edited February 2, 2015 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 All the people on here slating Darcy Ward for having a drink, well at least he's not a Cheat. Darcy has a natural talent on a bike he stands out and is very exciting to watch But some riders are cheating and making some other naturally talented riders look well not so good. Bikes are not being checked and should be regularly this would show who the talented riders are. If the BSPA sent out letters to each club saying regular checks are now compulsory we will see a big change in riders results. Either that or make it level playing field for all in other words If You Can't Beat em Join em. Yes Edward Kennet cheated and got caught but did anyone notice certain riders results change? I did. but after a while it was business as usuall. I am not saying for one minute drink or drugs is ok speedway is fast and furious and is not for the faint hearted I for one admire the riders but cheating should be a Big No No and has got to be stopped. i seem to remember Ward staying down lying on the ground to get a re run in the last heat of a match is that not cheating then? Ah but he is talented so that makes everything ok jeez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 i seem to remember Ward staying down lying on the ground to get a re run in the last heat of a match is that not cheating then? Ah but he is talented so that makes everything ok jeez Gamesmanship. Never give the advantage to opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 i seem to remember Ward staying down lying on the ground to get a re run in the last heat of a match is that not cheating then? Ah but he is talented so that makes everything ok jeez I agree it's cheating. But he accepted the punishment and as they say "idf you can't do the time, don't do the crime" you can flip that to, "if you're happy to do the time, then by all means commit the crime". We've all shouted for our riders to do it and a few heats later screamed at an opponent to get up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Nitro stinks so I can't imagine anybody getting away with it these days although I do know for a fact it has been used in the past. I know it used to be put into the fuel but also can see no reason why a sponge couldn't be put inside a round slide where the venturi effect would suck it in. However I also suspect that most of it would be gone long before the tapes went up so any benefit would be psychological. There were most definitely practices before the old World finals. Apart from the things Gustix calls gamesmanship we have the silencer episode which was stopped fairly quickly and an advance/ retard switch that was also stopped as confirmed cheating. Otherwise we have lots of rumours and nothing to really support what I read as the opening posters claim that cheating was currently widespread. Edited February 2, 2015 by Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'm pretty sure that everyone involved in speedway, from owner's, management, riders, mechanics and all the way down to track staff, follow the letter of the law at all times,,, so if at any time they didn't, surely it could be regarded as cheating,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Are there not souped-up forms of Methanol ?? Medical Methanol is one I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bream Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 VP Drag Racing M1 Methanol? That is pretty pure stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man in black Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I don't know. I am sure that someone on here could explain the technicalities of it. I DO know that it was used in the 70's. Technical summary here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitromethane. (Never quite trust "Wiki" but this seems to be pretty much OK). Amongst other things nitromethane releases oxygen on combustion and this is the primary "benefit" when used in small amounts as an additive to methanol. This of course changes the combustion process inside the engine, so unless you change the jetting and ignition to suit its main effect is to double the cost of your fuel and halve reliability. I'll bet Ivan Mauger got it right though......... You can buy nitro/methanol ready mixed at any model aircraft store. http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blog/2013/05/14/what-fuel-is-best-for-your-engine/ The improvement in speedway is the acceleration from a start, the most common way to use it was in a sponge inside the slide of the carburetor. Provided you don`t over rev the bike prior to the start, the throttle opening on the line squeezes the nitro mix into the carb. there is no residue in the tank to be detected True, but model aero fuel is 15-20% oil 'cos the engines are 2-strokes..... Sponge inside the carb is an interesting idea - I can see that it might work, though my gut feeling is that a big squirt of nitro is just as likely to kill the engine as give you a lightning getaway..... must try it sometime! Edited February 2, 2015 by Man in black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'm sure a few few years ago some riders filled their fuel line with water which they turned the tap on at start line and it helped reduce power out of gate and prevented too much wheel spin therefore produce a start from the gate.(might be talking rubbish but sure there was some tampering with fuel lines to help get a good gate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Think again.... 1972 World Final A well known story that has been mentioned and discussed many times over the years. On Forums and in Magazines. There was quite a lot written about it following the death of Tony Clarke last year. THANKS for correcting me .... the old grey cells and all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I'm sure a few few years ago some riders filled their fuel line with water which they turned the tap on at start line and it helped reduce power out of gate and prevented too much wheel spin therefore produce a start from the gate.(might be talking rubbish but sure there was some tampering with fuel lines to help get a good gate) yes seen a rider a couple of times take a mouthful of water before a race then take another one and spit it in the tank Edited February 2, 2015 by mac101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 How about this. All speedway fuel tanks have 2 fuel taps but a rider has a tank with a secret compartment just for his Nitro. Prior to his race he's fills his carb with Methanol and goes to the line therefore burning off his Methanol, at the line he then switches the other tap on containing Nitro to then fill his carb with Nitro ready for the start, once his carb is full he then switches that off and he's back on to Methanol and away he goes. If and only if a riders fuel gets checked by dipping a shringe into his to fuel reaching only one part of his tank it appears to be only Methanol. All riders when at start line always check their fuel is on so to see a rider doing this would not look suspicious. All bikes before a meeting are scruteneered so why not scrutinise their fuel tanks too and while they are there check bore size too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Gamesmanship. Never give the advantage to opponents. Gavan wouldn't know anything about Gamesmanship. All bikes before a meeting are scruteneered The bottom line is right, but can you prove the rest ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTC38L Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 How about this. All speedway fuel tanks have 2 fuel taps but a rider has a tank with a secret compartment just for his Nitro. Prior to his race he's fills his carb with Methanol and goes to the line therefore burning off his Methanol, at the line he then switches the other tap on containing Nitro to then fill his carb with Nitro ready for the start, once his carb is full he then switches that off and he's back on to Methanol and away he goes. If and only if a riders fuel gets checked by dipping a shringe into his to fuel reaching only one part of his tank it appears to be only Methanol. All riders when at start line always check their fuel is on so to see a rider doing this would not look suspicious. All bikes before a meeting are scruteneered so why not scrutinise their fuel tanks too and while they are there check bore size too you can smell nitro from a mile away. The start marshals would be complaining of their eye's watering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 you can smell nitro from a mile away. The start marshals would be complaining of their eye's watering. should that not be 'crying' ???,,, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Otherwise we have lots of rumours and nothing to really support what I read as the opening posters claim that cheating was currently widespread. Thing is some of these rumours come from longstanding riders.We had the suggestion from Stekkers that things aren't quite kosher in Poland from the SWC.I'd expect that he had some knowledge to back up this claim.We also had the suggestion from Mads that cheating was widespread.Again as an experienced rider i would expect he had some real knowledge to back this up.We have the Madsen affair.We had the claims that were even aired on Sky about Emil.These all come from within the sport and i would say there is no smoke without fire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Nitro requires a totally different carb. set up to Methanol, I don't think it would be possible to introduce it and then revert back to Methanol without changing the jet, slide and needle. If you tried the sponge trick it may do more harm than good. Should say I only have experience of it from Grasstrack , a long time ago when it was legal. I'm sure I read somewhere that Ivan Mauger tried Nitro, and discovered when not to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Nitro requires a totally different carb. set up to Methanol, I don't think it would be possible to introduce it and then revert back to Methanol without changing the jet, slide and needle. If you tried the sponge trick it may do more harm than good. Should say I only have experience of it from Grasstrack , a long time ago when it was legal. I'm sure I read somewhere that Ivan Mauger tried Nitro, and discovered when not to use it. I would guess that would be when he was in bed with his missus!! :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I would guess that would be when he was in bed with his missus!! :shock: no,,, its not to get confused with 'viagra',,, 'send in the clowns' :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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