Ned Kelly 41 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 i'll be honest. At first I was cynical about this whole thing, and wondered if nothing would get sorted until after the General Election as it was just a ruse to help doctor immigration figures. But more and more breaches of the immigration rules have been flagged up by people - particularly on the thread in Speedway Dicussions - and, if correct, it seems the BSPA have brought this upon themselves. I think it is wrong to lump the blame onto the BSPA. Some clubs kept proper records and passed all their audits. Others didn't, changed ownership without advising UKVI, brought over a series of duds, moved riders about without going through channels and probably disregarded advice from the BSPA office when things started to look messy last year. What's unfortunate -- unfair -- is that the clubs who did everything right have now had their status as certified employers cancelled along with the guilty ones. The blame should be put on those who, through laziness or incompetence, brought the UKVI to speedway's door. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think it is wrong to lump the blame onto the BSPA. Some clubs kept proper records and passed all their audits. Others didn't, changed ownership without advising UKVI, brought over a series of duds, moved riders about without going through channels and probably disregarded advice from the BSPA office when things started to look messy last year. What's unfortunate -- unfair -- is that the clubs who did everything right have now had their status as certified employers cancelled along with the guilty ones. The blame should be put on those who, through laziness or incompetence, brought the UKVI to speedway's door. The BSPA approve every signing. If one was illegal, they reject it. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smod Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 The BSPA approve every signing. If one was illegal, they reject it. Simple. Didn't the BSPA reject signings (Ryan Douglas maybe, certainly a handful at Glasgow) and the clubs appealed, got the original BSPA decisions over-ruled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local Boy Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 The BSPA approve every signing. If one was illegal, they reject it. Simple. It is not their job to question the submission of the employer i.e. the promoter. If the promoter says its legal; its legal! What do you not understand about all of this being the Employers responsibility, that is the law? If a submission is not legal the promoter should not have tried to push it through should they? The issue seems to be about competence of the employer does it not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 It is not their job to question the submission of the employer i.e. the promoter. If the promoter says its legal; its legal! What do you not understand about all of this being the Employers responsibility, that is the law? If a submission is not legal the promoter should not have tried to push it through should they? The issue seems to be about competence of the employer does it not? Even if the promoter who is pushing through the signing happened to be on the BSPA committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 It is not their job to question the submission of the employer i.e. the promoter. If the promoter says its legal; its legal! What do you not understand about all of this being the Employers responsibility, that is the law? If a submission is not legal the promoter should not have tried to push it through should they? The issue seems to be about competence of the employer does it not? It is the BSPA's responsiility. They endorse the visa applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Agree with that statement, but I can't see where I said I was in favour to justify speedway doing what it wants. My point was the football, with the dross in lower league, seems to have too low, and too broad, qualification requirements to play over here. They hardly bring people through the door, and as you imply below, there is a better case in football for them to be removed, and Brits move up a few notches and play at a higher lever. I believe, given the ratio of foreign players in our football leagues, especially the PL, that proposals are being considered to reduce our foreign percentage to a given norm to protect the strength of our National team and structure. See link in Arson's post above. There are hardly any work permit players in the lower leagues at all. There doesn't appear to be a single one in Division 2 and the same applies to Division 1. Very few 'foreign' players either in those leagues. It is not their job to question the submission of the employer i.e. the promoter. If the promoter says its legal; its legal! What do you not understand about all of this being the Employers responsibility, that is the law? If a submission is not legal the promoter should not have tried to push it through should they? The issue seems to be about competence of the employer does it not? You're clearly very confused. Do you know who the BSPA are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm not even sure there should be any non-EU riders in the Premier Leagua at all if you read the rules: https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-temporary-worker-creative-and-sporting-visa/eligibility "You need to make a significant contribution to your sport at the highest level in the UK to be eligible for this visa. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve55 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Wasn't Ty Proctor signing for Sheffield in place of Adam Roynon mid season last year, the one that originally rocked the boat? This has been brewing since then, hence the BSPA clamping down on the 5.00 average and not a 7.00. Seems it was a little too late as they were still too lapse in other areas.Could be a connection as the meeting between the UKVI and BSPA was held in Sheffield! But the thing that really has me puzzled in all of this is Why is the United Kingdom Visa & Immigration processing centre located in Manilla, Philippines????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post A ORLOV Posted January 23, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Could be a connection as the meeting between the UKVI and BSPA was held in Sheffield! But the thing that really has me puzzled in all of this is Why is the United Kingdom Visa & Immigration processing centre located in Manilla, Philippines????????? Some highly paid Civil Service flunky saw the request from the government that applications had to be sent in envelopes, manilla, so he set up a large uk govt processing department in Manilla. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaron Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Some highly paid Civil Service flunky saw the request from the government that applications had to be sent in envelopes, manilla, so he set up a large uk govt processing department in Manilla. As daft as that sounds - you know its right! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAMYAMBANDIT Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Some highly paid Civil Service flunky saw the request from the government that applications had to be sent in envelopes, manilla, so he set up a large uk govt processing department in Manilla. Only in Holyrood. Edited January 23, 2015 by TOURETTES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 It is not their job to question the submission of the employer i.e. the promoter. If the promoter says its legal; its legal! What do you not understand about all of this being the Employers responsibility, that is the law? If a submission is not legal the promoter should not have tried to push it through should they? The issue seems to be about competence of the employer does it not? Spot on mate, agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local Boy Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 It is the BSPA's responsiility. They endorse the visa applications. If I screw up in my job it's my responsibility; the promoters have screwed up; it's their responsibility. A few seem to be doing the British thing and looking for a convenient scapegoat. The promoters are the employers and the employers apply for a Visa; to do that they must be certain that the prospective employee meets all the criteria. The process isn't about having a punt to see if you can get away with it; well at least its not meant to be! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 i have no intention of getting into this debate. i blame redcar.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 i have no intention of getting into this debate. i blame redcar.. Do you mean 'moneybags Redcar'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 its from two years ago when they were not money bags redcar. they were migrant worker redcar. you may have to think about that one before you come up with the answer.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 would that be a certain little aussie who was rumoured to have come in through the back door and done a runner before the seasson ended done very well in both prem and elite leagues but even though plenty of interest for following year claimed he couldnt make it pay to return 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 would that be a certain little aussie who was rumoured to have come in through the back door and done a runner before the seasson ended done very well in both prem and elite leagues but even though plenty of interest for following year claimed he couldnt make it pay to return he had one or two other problems , if it's the same one you're hinting at 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 So there isn't an issue. Thankyou for admitting that and rendering your whole point null and void. Bollocks "Legally" is the key word you used there. Legal but you miss the point once again, the applicants are nowhere near 'world class' performers, and in the words of HA, 'capable of putting bums on seats'. You are still banging on about the number of work permit players in the lower leagues. I've asked you to name some, you've not managed to name one as yet... I wonder why that is? And nor will I. The FL realise it, HA has said it and upto date footie fans all know it. If you don't TOUGH. would that be a certain little aussie who was rumoured to have come in through the back door and done a runner before the seasson ended done very well in both prem and elite leagues but even though plenty of interest for following year claimed he couldnt make it pay to return With Dyer consequences. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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