speedway102285 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 WTF do the UKBA know about Speedway? have they any idea what a 7pt average is. I have this picture of some jobs worth tasked with researching what speedway is then coming up with some ludicrous notions as to how he see's it running. Get me back to the 40-50's when all the Aussies came over on boats for the season with their bikes and the carpet was rolled out at Passport Control. Or the 70's when Les Whaley brought Bradford with Brenton Langlois, Rob Maxfield and Mike Fullerton for the 73 season. The Aussies/New Zealanders ARE US for Christ's sake; half of them were sent out on boats as the £10 Pom's from the UK in the 60's or are related to someone who was. Angry! you bet I am. Probably nothing as its a defunct Government dept ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior fan Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 getting popcorn out and sitting back to watch the fallout on here in the next few days. should be fun ! Chuckle , chuckle , glad your getting a good laugh out of it. If there a bit sour try turning them into wine. Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTC38L Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Clearly more than the BSPA when it comes to working out who is or isn't top class. Letys be honest, theres not a single rider listed in the first post that is "World class" is there? So none of them should have a work permit. Why are we letting in rubbish riders who add very little? Grajzonek and Fisher are the only two close to it. Incidently, I think Kurtz has GB nationality in him somewhere. His brother certainly had dual Nationality. but they are not the only riders affected by this. It also affects holder, batchelor, doyle, ward, north, fricke and woodward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Let me just get this right; there 22 speedway riders (absolutely integral to the success of speedway in this country) barred from entering what is their Mother Country. For most Australians these days the UK is not their mother country, and I don't see why the descendants of people who chose to leave the country several generations ago should be given special privileges. What has HM Queen to say about this; lets be straight to the point I have more in common with Ryan Douglas than the 22000 illegals(and more) from the EU and Third World trudging the streets of Bradford. So what the hell is going on with the UKBA to bar skilled Commonwealth citizens from working here. Because there's a significant percentage of people in the UK who want to restrict immigration and who vote UKIP, and we're now seeing the consequences of this. Illegals are irrelevant in this discussion because by definition they shouldn't be in the country anyway. Speedway is a minor sport nowadays, is not a big crowd puller, and certainly doesn't contribute much if anything to the UK economy. Why then should it expect to be exempted from the rules that apply to every other business? Speedways not just any old job; we cannot find 22 riders of their standard just off the cuff. You can say the same about many specialised industries, but over on the General Discussions thread you'll find plenty claiming that the UK should be training rather than importing skilled people. A guy I work with his son; announced he was off to Australia at Christmas; packs his bags and flies to Sydney. Only got A Levels and has found a job already he's no specialised skills or qualifications; but the Aussies have not kicked him out. What sort of Visa would he need to bum around in Oz for a year. He'll be on a young person's working holiday visa which in principle only entitles the holder to take unskilled short-term employment. There's an equivalent visa in the UK which Aussie riders used to be able to use to come over and ride, but that was abusing the terms and there was a clampdown. I'm a 'skilled migrant' currently working in a professional occupation in Australia, and I had to go through a several month process to obtain a visa despite being invited by an employer. I got no special privileges as a so-called Commonwealth citizen. As far as I am aware the Commonwealth still exists (it did for the games last summer anyway) so I cannot see how the UKBA can prevent the free movement of Commonwealth citizens from one country to another provided they have a viable occupation to go to or can secure work on arrival. The Commonwealth isn't a freedom of movement zone. That all stopped in the Enoch Powell era when the locals complained about all the funny coloured people coming in from the Commonwealth. Of course, the likes of Jamaica and Nigeria are also in the Commonwealth, so would you be so happy if there was unrestricted immigration from there, or do you envisage the special privileges to only apply to certain Commonwealth countries or speedway riders? Edited January 22, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekker Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Ho Hum all teams back the drawing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm presuming that this is because the BSPA have ignored the UKBA rules for the past couple of years. The BSPA allowed Somerset to use an Aussie at a lower points limit than the UKBA stated last year IIRC. Weren't the BSPA due to have a meeting with the UKBA about this? It appears that the BSPA were more worried about upsetting Somerset than the UKBA and now UK Speedway is paying the price... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm presuming that this is because the BSPA have ignored the UKBA rules for the past couple of years. The BSPA allowed Somerset to use an Aussie at a lower points limit than the UKBA stated last year IIRC. Weren't the BSPA due to have a meeting with the UKBA about this? It appears that the BSPA2 were more worried about upsetting Somerset than the UKBA and now UK Speedway is paying the price... Ah yes, I think I remember something about that and posting at the time that it was dangerous to try and cheat the UKBA these days. So you could be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 but they are not the only riders affected by this. It also affects holder, batchelor, doyle, ward, north, fricke and woodwardthe first four on the list all average over 7. Fricke is national u21 champion.have woodward or north finished top four in a state competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) the first four on the list all average over 7. Fricke is national u21 champion. have woodward or north finished top four in a state competition? Woodward came 3rd in the Aussie championship in 2013 so I'm sure he will be ok. North came 2nd in the same year. Edited January 22, 2015 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Irving Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Clearly more than the BSPA when it comes to working out who is or isn't top class. Letys be honest, theres not a single rider listed in the first post that is "World class" is there? So none of them should have a work permit. Why are we letting in rubbish riders who add very little? Grajzonek and Fisher are the only two close to it. That's a bit harsh isn't it? There may not be any on that list who could currently be labelled "world class", but there's one or two youngsters on there that certainly have the potential to be. I'm not sure the majority on that list "add very little" either. They offer a darn sight more than some of the crap Brits that will have to be shoehorned in to make up the numbers if these guys get refused Visa's! I do agree however that over the years, far too many overseas riders who were clearly not good enough were given Visa's and team places over here at the expense of Brits of a similar standard, that shouldn't have done. Edited January 22, 2015 by Steve Irving 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 That's a bit harsh isn't it? There may not be any on that list who could currently be labelled "world class", but there's one or two youngsters on there that certainly have the potential to be. I'm not sure the majority on that list "add very little" either. They offer a darn sight more than some of the crap Brits that will have to be shoehorned in to make up the numbers if these guys get refused Visa's! I do agree however that over the years, far too many overseas riders who were clearly not good enough were given Visa's and team places over here at the expense of Brits of a similar standard, that shouldn't have done. I suppose Manzares falls in to the "rubbish" category. He's a 20 year old who until last season had never ever ridden in any team speedway, who in his first season reached a very creditable 6+ PL average. He was a joy to watch as well and definitely added something to the PL. If the criteria for qualification on here is correct, he should be fine though as he has a national U21 title on his CV from 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Did not Jason Doyle have a tier 5 visa, which meant that he could only ride for one club in this country. I know Ty Proctor had to choose between riding for Wolves and Sheffield which would hint that he will be using a tier 5 visa. Maybe this is what the rest will have to do. You cant get any visa without club having sponsor certificate..this its whats been removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 You cant get any visa without club having sponsor certificate..this its whats been removed You'd expect something will be clarified publically on this issue sooner rather than later. I expect we'll hear something today at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paulco Posted January 22, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 This is such a shame that the visa thing has now escalated to this . Whatever your point of view on the subject , there's no doubt speedway will be all the poorer if this is about the end of the Aussies in speedway over here . They have graced our leagues since league speedway began and it's another nail in the coffin for the sport we all love . 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) That's a bit harsh isn't it? There may not be any on that list who could currently be labelled "world class", but there's one or two youngsters on there that certainly have the potential to be. I doubt I'd get much leeway if I asked for an Australia visa because one day I'd be really good at my job. It's about the here-and-now. I fully agree that Australians (and Kiwis) should be riding in the UK, but if they're not, it's a consequence of people voting for parties who want to keep immigrants out. Edited January 22, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 but they are not the only riders affected by this. It also affects holder, batchelor, doyle, ward, north, fricke and woodward Isn't Holders wife British? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Irving Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I doubt I'd get much leeway if I asked for an Australia visa because one day I'd be really good at my job. It's about the here-and-now. You could argue that a fair few of those are already good at their jobs, but just fall short of the "criteria" to now suddenly get a visa. You're good enough to have a visa and ride over here if you averaged 7.00, come on over, but if you averaged 6.99 you're not good enough and stay away? Or is it that if you require a visa and don't have dual nationality/British passport, you won't get one no matter how good you are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Isn't Holders wife British? Might be wrong but I don't think Holder is married, of course that might change now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseq7 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) You could argue that a fair few of those are already good at their jobs, but just fall short of the "criteria" to now suddenly get a visa. You're good enough to have a visa and ride over here if you averaged 7.00, come on over, but if you averaged 6.99 you're not good enough and stay away? Or is it that if you require a visa and don't have dual nationality/British passport, you won't get one no matter how good you are? This is it here...... If this 'above 7 is okay' is correct then.... Kozza Smith on 7.15 is okay but Justin Sedgeman on 6.99 is not okay. This is clearly quite nonsensical. What about the assessed 7.00? Jack Holder, for example. Is 7.01 okay but 7.00 is not okay? Obviously a criteria means a line has to be drawn somewhere. Edited January 22, 2015 by Joseq7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 getting popcorn out and sitting back to watch the fallout on here in the next few days. should be fun ! Yes, it looks like we are going to see some interesting times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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