scaramanga Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 nothing funny about racisim and imigration is even more serious speedway riders have to pass a wtitten and verble english test but anyother sport or job they can come over regardless of if they can speak english where i work my boss always gave foriegners a work sheet got them to read it and explain what it ment now we use agency workers and we get "the dont understand english not good " routine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â Why? Â Because we don't get to see some second rate riders? Â Instead, those places should go to young British riders which WOULD help the sport in this country. Â Â If it was funny perhaps... Â Instead it was an ill-educated, bordering on racist post. Â As has been said, all other walks of life are required to abide by the work permit rules. Those that don't can be punished heavily, speedway should be thankful that isn't happening in this case. Â Despite the gibberish spouted by folk such as Tsunami, you don't see poor quality work permit players in most other sports.. I note he hasn't made further comment regarding his utterly incorrect claims regarding footballs lower leagues. it will be interesting to see if Arsenal manage to gain a permit for the uncapped Brazillian they are currently persuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â Not rubbish at all. Â The work permit criteria wouldn't prevent the majority of Australians who have come to this country from riding. Without checking I suspect those three would have met the relevant criteria most seasons. Â The issue has stemmed from riders of lower quality than those coming over. Â It wasn't a harmless thing. Â I hate political correctness, but that comment had nothing at all to do with 'political correctness' and is PRECISELY the reason there is so much trouble and prejudice. Â The only way you could find the joke funny is if you had a pre-held belief that if you were black with 6 kids you would get a work permit. Â This is ill-educated nonsense. Â And then BWitcher wonders why others don't join him in his 'debates'. Head in sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well I would have thought it funny if he had put they were from Australia and said white people with six kids. Â You really are stretching things here BW. Â Mind you, it does appear that, at present, Australian Speedway Riders are having more trouble getting in to this Country than all of the Illegal Immigrants from other Countries - White or Black. Â WK, you're digging now. Â The thread is about Australians not getting work permits, so someone posting "If they were Australian...." would hardly be funny would it. The only reason you thought it was funny was because he used the term black, nothing more, nothing less. Â Jokes about English, Irish, Jews etc that many find amusing are stereo-typical jokes.. Jews and money for example... those are the jokes where political correctness interferes... They are stereo-types, so based upon elements of truth. Â However, in this case there is no element of truth, its simply ill-educated nonsense that sadly many actually believe to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â Not rubbish at all. Â The work permit criteria wouldn't prevent the majority of Australians who have come to this country from riding. Without checking I suspect those three would have met the relevant criteria most seasons. Â The issue has stemmed from riders of lower quality than those coming over. Â Â But that's just it , you just don't know what you're going to get . Both Josh Grajczonek and Mitchell Davey joined Glasgow at the same time . One made it , one didn't . If the beaurocrats have their way , Josh wouldn't have had a relatively successful career . Scottish clubs have went down the Australian route for decades , because a lot of British riders don't want to travel north . From that perspective it harms our clubs 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited)  And then BWitcher wonders why others don't join him in his 'debates'. Head in sand.  Really Tsunami?  Another personal attack I see and yet again nothing of substance to add.  Point out something I have said that is wrong and you might have an issue.  You've posted a whole load of utter made up nonsense on the thread so far, particularly regarding footballers in the lower leagues and are unable to be adult enough to admit that you were wrong. That speaks volumes Tsunami.  Not the first time you've done that though is it. But that's just it , you just don't know what you're going to get . Both Josh Grajczonek and Mitchell Davey joined Glasgow at the same time . One made it , one didn't . If the beaurocrats have their way , Josh wouldn't have had a relatively successful career . Scottish clubs have went down the Australian route for decades , because a lot of British riders don't want to travel north . From that perspective it harms our clubs  I can understand that point of view Paulco for sure.  Again though, this is the whole issue. Work permits aren't and shouldn't be for taking a punt on someone who may or may not make it. They are meant to be for a proven commodity. Edited January 25, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Rubbish . Ok we dont live in Elite League land , but over the last few years we have been greatly entertained by the likes of Shane Parker , Rusty Harrison , Kozza Smith etc . Ok they might be second rate to EL supporters , but they have graced our league and entertained us greatly . It would be sad to say goodbye to their like  Particularly for the likes of Smith who has been prevented from racing over here more than once now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Shows the depths that the sport has plummeted to, when Kozza Smith and Rusty Harrison are talked of as riders that would be missed. Desperate times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â WK, you're digging now. Â The thread is about Australians not getting work permits, so someone posting "If they were Australian...." would hardly be funny would it. The only reason you thought it was funny was because he used the term black, nothing more, nothing less. Â Jokes about English, Irish, Jews etc that many find amusing are stereo-typical jokes.. Jews and money for example... those are the jokes where political correctness interferes... They are stereo-types, so based upon elements of truth. Â However, in this case there is no element of truth, its simply ill-educated nonsense that sadly many actually believe to be true. BW - once again you and I are not going to agree. I honestly believe your argument is coming from a Politically Correct standpoint. I hate Political Correctness in all of it's forms and will not have anything to do with it. You may not like that - that is your prerogative. I thought the Joke was funny - you didn't. That's your view, fair enough you are entitled to that. My view is different - and I am entitled to that too. Please do not presume to question my motives and imply that my views make me uneducated I would not insult you in that way and I am saddened and not a little surprised that you have done so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Shows the depths that the sport has plummeted to, when Kozza Smith and Rusty Harrison are talked of as riders that would be missed. Desperate times. That's a ridiculous statement . Both are extremely exciting riders to watch at PL level 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 it will be interesting to see if Arsenal manage to gain a permit for the uncapped Brazillian they are currently persuing. They will if they complete the paperwork correctly!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â Â Â I can understand that point of view Paulco for sure. Â Again though, this is the whole issue. Work permits aren't and shouldn't be for taking a punt on someone who may or may not make it. They are meant to be for a proven commodity. Leagues have been won in the past with promotions " taking a punt " . Darcy Ward joined Kings Lynn on a 5 point average when he first came over . Ok he was rumoured to have potential , but you just never know how they'll adjust . Ivan Mauger didn't set the heather on fire on his first try on these shores . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Although if the PL werent able to 'take a punt' on a few then the EL woukd also be affected as very few are of the standard for them to go straight in at that level. Therefore there does need to be some tolerance in the system which should be realistic criteria. That probably has been about right. There will always be those that bomb out. Where the tightnening needs to be is allowing them to continueon lower averages and clubs getting tge admin right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â Really Tsunami? Â Another personal attack I see and yet again nothing of substance to add. Â Point out something I have said that is wrong and you might have an issue. Â You've posted a whole load of utter made up nonsense on the thread so far, particularly regarding footballers in the lower leagues and are unable to be adult enough to admit that you were wrong. That speaks volumes Tsunami. Â Not the first time you've done that though is it. Â It's not a case of being right or wrong, just the abuse you throw at people who dare to have an alternative point, and the manner of delivery. You can't debate, get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Leagues have been won in the past with promotions " taking a punt " . Darcy Ward joined Kings Lynn on a 5 point average when he first came over . Ok he was rumoured to have potential , but you just never know how they'll adjust . Ivan Mauger didn't set the heather on fire on his first try on these shores .  That is all completely irrelevant to the issue at hand  I'm assuming you must be in favour of open immigration?  If not why should being a speedway rider make you exempt from the rules and guidelines that everyone else has to go through?  As for Darcy, he was Australian U-21 Champion when he joined Kings Lynn? So he would have qualified anyway.  This reinforces the point.. if they are GOOD enough, they meet the criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Although if the PL werent able to 'take a punt' on a few then the EL woukd also be affected as very few are of the standard for them to go straight in at that level. Therefore there does need to be some tolerance in the system which should be realistic criteria. That probably has been about right. There will always be those that bomb out. Where the tightnening needs to be is allowing them to continueon lower averages and clubs getting tge admin right. I dont see a problem in letting Australians or Americans or whomever in on a 7 point average and given 2 seasons to achieve that . Better a hungry for success Aussie travelling halfway around the world to try and become a successful speedway rider , than some second rate Dane or German trundling round scoring 2 and 3 every meeting . As for the Brit argument , if they're good enough and ambitious enough they'll make it regardless  That is all completely irrelevant to the issue at hand  I'm assuming you must be in favour of open immigration?  If not why should being a speedway rider make you exempt from the rules and guidelines that everyone else has to go through?  As for Darcy, he was Australian U-21 Champion when he joined Kings Lynn? So he would have qualified anyway.  This reinforces the point.. if they are GOOD enough, they meet the criteria. Immigration is being used to cloud the issue . They are speedway riders , not Romanian benefit claimers . If they don't score , they don't eat . Why strangle sport with red tape where there's never been a problem before . If they ain't good enough , they get shipped out and the promotion that took a punt has seen their gamble fail . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's not a case of being right or wrong, just the abuse you throw at people who dare to have an alternative point, and the manner of delivery. You can't debate, get over it.  Marvellous Tsunami, coming from the man who said..   Members 22,898 posts Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:15 PM BWitcher, on 23 Jan 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:  So there isn't an issue.  Thankyou for admitting that and rendering your whole point null and void.  Bollocks  "Legally" is the key word you used there.  Legal but you miss the point once again, the applicants are nowhere near 'world class' performers, and in the words of HA, 'capable of putting bums on seats'.  You are still banging on about the number of work permit players in the lower leagues. I've asked you to name some, you've not managed to name one as yet... I wonder why that is?  And nor will I. The FL realise it, HA has said it and upto date footie fans all know it. If you don't TOUGH. You are the one who used the foul language.  You are the one who made up a comment that 'the FL realise it' and all up to date football fans 'know it'..  You are the one who ended it by saying if I don't "TOUGH".  That's hardly eloquent debate Tsunami, especially when what you are saying is for far from the truth its shocking.  As said, I've been wrong in the past on here and I've apologised and admitted it.  Quite clearly, you are incapable of that. Very sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â Â Marvellous Tsunami, coming from the man who said.. Â Â Members 22,898 posts Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:15 PM BWitcher, on 23 Jan 2015 - 11:12 AM, said: You are the one who used the foul language. Â You are the one who made up a comment that 'the FL realise it' and all up to date football fans 'know it'.. Â You are the one who ended it by saying if I don't "TOUGH". Â That's hardly eloquent debate Tsunami, especially when what you are saying is for far from the truth its shocking. Very interesting As said, I've been wrong in the past on here and I've apologised and admitted it. Â Quite clearly, you are incapable of that. Very sad. Â When I am wrong to you, you will be the first to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Â Immigration is being used to cloud the issue . They are speedway riders , not Romanian benefit claimers . If they don't score , they don't eat . Why strangle sport with red tape where there's never been a problem before . If they ain't good enough , they get shipped out and the promotion that took a punt has seen their gamble fail . Â Again, it's clear you don't understand the situation. Â They require a work permit. Romanians do not. There is no correlation between the two at all. Â To obtain a permit to work in the UK you are required to meet certain standards. It is the LAW of the land. What you are saying is you feel that speedway should be exempt from the law? When I am wrong to you, you will be the first to hear it. Â So you are STILL claiming there is a problem with work permit players in the lower leagues of football? Â Seriously? Â Or were you just making things up before? Â It's one or the other Tsunami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Â Again, it's clear you don't understand the situation. Â They require a work permit. Romanians do not. There is no correlation between the two at all. Â To obtain a permit to work in the UK you are required to meet certain standards. It is the LAW of the land. What you are saying is you feel that speedway should be exempt from the law? I am yes , all sport should be . Sport is worldwide entertainment and shouldn't be bound by normal immigration rules . Surely as a speedway fan you want to watch the best riders our clubs can afford regardless of where they happen to come from . Â And you're in the PL section now , we don't do condescending in here . Not what you're used to maybe , but the sport is more important to us than the wrongs of red tape strangling it . Edited January 25, 2015 by Paulco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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