ruffdiamond Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 It was the result of consultation between Work Permits (UK), the forerunner of UKBA and now UKVI, the BSPA and the SCB in January 2006. In previous years the SRA were also involved. ok,,, I only asked cos some-one had stated 'As far as I'm aware the Visa people dont care what average a new Aussie comes in on',,, and thought it to be a bit strange,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Campton has done a helluva lot better in 2 seasons than riders like Dilger. He has been over here for ages, is absolute pants. Yet he is still allowed to prevent up and coming Brits a team place. Vote to leave the EU in 2 years time. Nothing else can stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadders Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Vote to leave the EU in 2 years time. Nothing else can stop it.Then another 3 or 4 years to implement the ruling. By then speedway as we know it in this country would've died. Edited February 8, 2015 by Shads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Then another 3 or 4 years to implement the ruling. By then speedway as we know it in this country would've died. Fair point though longer term Westminster would take back control of immigration and could offer favourable terms to the nations of our choosing not those imposed on us, just as the Portuguese do for Brazilians, the Italians for Argentinians etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Fair point though longer term Westminster would take back control of immigration and could offer favourable terms to the nations of our choosing not those imposed on us, just as the Portuguese do for Brazilians, the Italians for Argentinians etc. So how come both of those countries are also in the EU? The EU does not dictate who the UK can admit from outside the EU. That's UK government policy, which is currently responding to the clamouring of the 'get tough on immigration' lobby. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Then another 3 or 4 years to implement the ruling. By then speedway as we know it in this country would've died. And who is the blame for that, when you have a league where it is mostly filled with none British riders, because the clubs in that league would rather have none British riders, the league can only blame themselves, its been said for years that the league employs to many, its about time clubs woke up to this, and started thinking about signing riders that live in this Country, and that don't include rubbish from Europe, I would rather watch a British lad trying, and not making it, than a rider from Europe doing the same, we might be in Europe, but its a British league. So how come both of those countries are also in the EU? The EU does not dictate who the UK can admit from outside the EU. That's UK government policy, which is currently responding to the clamouring of the 'get tough on immigration' lobby. Spot on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble53 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) And who is the blame for that, when you have a league where it is mostly filled with none British riders, because the clubs in that league would rather have none British riders, the league can only blame themselves, its been said for years that the league employs to many, its about time clubs woke up to this, and started thinking about signing riders that live in this Country, and that don't include rubbish from Europe, I would rather watch a British lad trying, and not making it, than a rider from Europe doing the same, we might be in Europe, but its a British league. That's all very well in theory, but at the moment I don't think that can happen for a couple of reasons. Firstly, in my opinion, and it's only an opinion, we don't have a sufficiently big enough talent pool to choose from, and secondly, when you do find someone who might fit the bill, they often have an unrealistic view of their own ability/talent, and price themselves out of the market. I know of one club who offered a young British NL rider a place as a 3pt reserve, only to be horrified at his wage demands, which would have put him on a par with much more talented and experienced riders. Until Speedway can overcome situations like those, the problems as you see them will remain Edited February 9, 2015 by womble53 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 That's all very well in theory, but at the moment I don't think that can't happen for a couple of reasons. Firstly, in my opinion, and it's only an opinion, we don't have a sufficiently big enough talent pool to choose from, and secondly, when you do find someone who might fit the bill, they often have an unrealistic view of their own ability/talent, and price themselves out of the market. I know of one club who offered a young British NL rider a place as a 3pt reserve, only to be horrified his wage demands, which would have put him on a par with much more talented and experienced riders. Until Speedway can overcome situations like those, the problems as you see them will remain 1 of the more realistic posts on here unfortunatly some people just dont see that for 1 reason or another british riders are just not the best option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 That's all very well in theory, but at the moment I don't think that can't happen for a couple of reasons. Firstly, in my opinion, and it's only an opinion, we don't have a sufficiently big enough talent pool to choose from, and secondly, when you do find someone who might fit the bill, they often have an unrealistic view of their own ability/talent, and price themselves out of the market. I know of one club who offered a young British NL rider a place as a 3pt reserve, only to be horrified his wage demands, which would have put him on a par with much more talented and experienced riders. Until Speedway can overcome situations like those, the problems as you see them will remain One thing for sure is we will get a better quality of Australia rider coming into the league, and they will give 100% until the end of the season, not like some who when there team don't get into the play-offs, they try to get there average down so they can get a place for another team the next season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 you only get the aussies to stop untill the end of the season if their dad does not have a birthday.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 1 of the more realistic posts on here unfortunatly some people just dont see that for 1 reason or another british riders are just not the best option They may not be the better option, but you cant blame them for the situation, that the league is in now, maybe if the league had put British riders first in a British league, we would not be in the mess that we are going to be in now, not all British riders are a bad option, I can think of a few I have watched at Plymouth that I would say in my opinion, were far worse then a lot British lads, I have watched, and I bet they were not cheap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 They may not be the better option, but you cant blame them for the situation, that the league is in now, maybe if the league had put British riders first in a British league, we would not be in the mess that we are going to be in now, not all British riders are a bad option, I can think of a few I have watched at Plymouth that I would say in my opinion, were far worse then a lot British lads, I have watched, and I bet they were not cheap. I am not so sure that the problem was that bad last season, when you look at the team places that were shared out by Premier League. Looking at the clubs and the nationality of the riders that they used these are following figures; Premier League 2014 Berwick 8 riders used 1 British 2 Aussies 5 European. Edinburgh 7 riders used 3 British 3 Aussies 1 American. Glasgow 10 riders used 3 Aussies 7 European. Ipswich 7 riders used 3 British 2 Aussies 1 European 1 American. Newcastle 8 riders used 5 British 2 European 1 Aussie. Peterborough 11 riders used 5 British 5 European 1 American Plymouth 11 riders used 6 British 5 European Redcar 9 riders used 4 British 3 Aussies 2 European Rye House 10 riders used 8 British 2 European Scunthorpe 9 riders used 5 British 1 Aussie 3 European Sheffield 10 riders used 6 British 2 Aussie 2 European Somerset 7 riders used 3 British 3 Aussie 1 European Workington 9 riders used 5 British 2 Aussie 1 European 1 American Overall British 54 riders European 36 riders Aussies 22 riders American 4 riders Some clubs fared better than others, but most clubs appeared to choose mainly Brits. It could have been better, but the massive problem is that the wealth of talent in this country is not there, and the loss of certain amount of Aussies, cannot be replaced wholly by British riders. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 An excellent summing up of the situation spin king. Thank you for all the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I am not so sure that the problem was that bad last season, when you look at the team places that were shared out by Premier League. Looking at the clubs and the nationality of the riders that they used these are following figures; Premier League 2014 Berwick 8 riders used 1 British 2 Aussies 5 European. Edinburgh 7 riders used 3 British 3 Aussies 1 American. Glasgow 10 riders used 3 Aussies 7 European. Ipswich 7 riders used 3 British 2 Aussies 1 European 1 American. Newcastle 8 riders used 5 British 2 European 1 Aussie. Peterborough 11 riders used 5 British 5 European 1 American Plymouth 11 riders used 6 British 5 European Redcar 9 riders used 4 British 3 Aussies 2 European Rye House 10 riders used 8 British 2 European Scunthorpe 9 riders used 5 British 1 Aussie 3 European Sheffield 10 riders used 6 British 2 Aussie 2 European Somerset 7 riders used 3 British 3 Aussie 1 European Workington 9 riders used 5 British 2 Aussie 1 European 1 American Overall British 54 riders European 36 riders Aussies 22 riders American 4 riders Some clubs fared better than others, but most clubs appeared to choose mainly Brits. It could have been better, but the massive problem is that the wealth of talent in this country is not there, and the loss of certain amount of Aussies, cannot be replaced wholly by British riders. I agree the talent in this Country at the moment is not there, but you have to say why is that, and in my opinion most of it is down to the clubs in the British league, its all of there making, they don't give a toss where the rider comes from, Plymouth included, if they did they would have gave the reserve spot to a British lad, instead of Roland Benko, and most of the supporters would have agreed with it. British riders because they were not guaranteed a place in a team, had to find jobs, when I talked to Kyle Hughes when he was riding for Plymouth, he had a full time job, coming down to Plymouth, its was a second job, now if like most British lads, also have a full time job, asking them to ride full time in the British league, it has to be worth there while doing it, if a rider gets injured during the year, and most do, and has a full time job, and will have to be off work, they will lose money, so I can understand them asking for more than most, but I have to agree that the amount of Aussie riders that the league will lose cannot be replaced wholly by British riders, the blame for that is with the teams in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I agree the talent in this Country at the moment is not there, but you have to say why is that, and in my opinion most of it is down to the clubs in the British league, its all of there making, they don't give a toss where the rider comes from, Plymouth included, if they did they would have gave the reserve spot to a British lad, instead of Roland Benko, and most of the supporters would have agreed with it. British riders because they were not guaranteed a place in a team, had to find jobs, when I talked to Kyle Hughes when he was riding for Plymouth, he had a full time job, coming down to Plymouth, its was a second job, now if like most British lads, also have a full time job, asking them to ride full time in the British league, it has to be worth there while doing it, if a rider gets injured during the year, and most do, and has a full time job, and will have to be off work, they will lose money, so I can understand them asking for more than most, but I have to agree that the amount of Aussie riders that the league will lose cannot be replaced wholly by British riders, the blame for that is with the teams in the league. Its all very well saying its the clubs fault you have posted on the plymouth forum that we missed a trick not going for covatti and palm toft! The british lads are just not good enough or committed enough bar one or two exceptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Its all very well saying its the clubs fault you have posted on the plymouth forum that we missed a trick not going for covatti and palm toft! The british lads are just not good enough or committed enough bar one or two exceptions Perhaps they would be if given the chance. It's a steep learning curve, and we may have to put up with some hard triers for a while. But in the long run - I believe that if we persevered - British Speedway would feel the benefits further down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Perhaps they would be if given the chance. It's a steep learning curve, and we may have to put up with some hard triers for a while. But in the long run - I believe that if we persevered - British Speedway would feel the benefits further down the line.[/q Perhaps they would be if given the chance. It's a steep learning curve, and we may have to put up with some hard triers for a while. But in the long run - I believe that if we persevered - British Speedway would feel the benefits further down the line. Perhaps they would be if given the chance. It's a steep learning curve, and we may have to put up with some hard triers for a while. But in the long run - I believe that if we persevered - British Speedway would feel the benefits further down the line.I agree wk but I think you will always get crrtain clubs who will go for a foreigner unless its made mandatory to have say 2brits at teserve and two in the main body! Edited February 8, 2015 by lewy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Its all very well saying its the clubs fault you have posted on the plymouth forum that we missed a trick not going for covatti and palm toft! The british lads are just not good enough or committed enough bar one or two exceptions The two riders mentioned are better than Benko, that's what I ment when I said we missed a trick, I would rather have a British lad in the team, than any of them, but its never going to happen, when the club wont even look, and go for riders other clubs don't want, we are waiting now on a rider that has never been on a British track, good thinking. ame="The White Knight" post="2574050" timestamp="1423426188"] Perhaps they would be if given the chance. It's a steep learning curve, and we may have to put up with some hard triers for a while. But in the long run - I believe that if we persevered - British Speedway would feel the benefits further down the line.[/q I agree wk but I think you will always get crrtain clubs who will go for a foreigner unless its made mandatory to have say 2brits at teserve and two in the main body! how many Australians were in the British league ten years ago, you only have be able to ride a bike, and be Australian now, and you get a ride in the British league Edited February 8, 2015 by Devildodger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 If we only went for riders other clubs did not want you would be the first to moan and just because a rider has limited experience in brritain doesnt make him a poor choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 If we only went for riders other clubs did not want you would be the first to moan and just because a rider has limited experience in brritain doesnt make him a poor choice! I don't think so, Kyle Newman was dropped by Somerset, and I think he is the best rider we have signed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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