Agrotron Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I put this through on a thread after the agm and had no reply, was there no talk of track covers which I thought would be imperative after the season we have just had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I put this through on a thread after the agm and had no reply, was there no talk of track covers which I thought would be imperative after the season we have just had? I think they could solve more problems than they create but you would need access to fit them and presumably staff to do the job. Then there is cost, you would want some that actually worked and didn't create patches (as we have sometimes seen). I can imagine a lead coming from the FIM who might well require that they be used for their events someday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrotron Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yes I had thought that, with all the moaning last year and supporters stamping there feet about track covers there would of been some discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I think they could solve more problems than they create but you would need access to fit them and presumably staff to do the job. Then there is cost, you would want some that actually worked and didn't create patches (as we have sometimes seen). I can imagine a lead coming from the FIM who might well require that they be used for their events someday. The FIM don't promote any events so really would be unconcerned about rainoffs. You're right about costs and that's the killer. How could a club only getting 500-600 thro' the gate afford the outlay, manpower and maintenance required + The BSPA don't have any money to fund it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 The FIM don't promote any events so really would be unconcerned about rainoffs. You're right about costs and that's the killer. How could a club only getting 500-600 thro' the gate afford the outlay, manpower and maintenance required + The BSPA don't have any money to fund it. You're right, I was thinking of SGP, SWC and other major events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 ... The BSPA don't have any money to fund it. They MUST have. Check out the Social Media thread...according to one person there, the BSPA get a "seven figure sum" off SkySports for the TV rights...that's over a million squid. Which is a lot of money. So why can't a once and for all investment be made and be done with it? Of course, if the information about the "seven figure sum" is incorrect, then it could well explain why there is no money in the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 They MUST have. Check out the Social Media thread...according to one person there, the BSPA get a "seven figure sum" off SkySports for the TV rights...that's over a million squid. Which is a lot of money. So why can't a once and for all investment be made and be done with it? Of course, if the information about the "seven figure sum" is incorrect, then it could well explain why there is no money in the pot. This season they were lucky to get the meetings shown on sky and I am under the impression that the club being shown get a small amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 The point is, if SkySports have made a payment to the BSPA for the rights to televise speedway then that money belongs to the BSPA to spend how they like. Nothing to do with saving those meetings that are due to be televised. Buxton should have the same rights to funding for track covers as Belle Vue. The same pot of money could pay for both...I did only say "could"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The FIM don't promote any events so really would be unconcerned about rainoffs. You're right about costs and that's the killer. How could a club only getting 500-600 thro' the gate afford the outlay, manpower and maintenance required + The BSPA don't have any money to fund it. Maybe this should have a topic of its own but gate numbers have been mentioned here. The biggest problem with speedway today is getting supporters numbers up. A lot of financial problems would disappear if every existing supporter encouraged just one new person through the gate. A suggestion I have put to my club for this season is for every poster that is given out to leave a last seasons programme and an explanatory leaflet on what speedway is and to encourage the company that own the notice board to consider advertising or sponsorship. If every existing supporter distributed one poster each to their place of work I'm sure there could be a dramatic rise in interest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 You're right about costs and that's the killer. How could a club only getting 500-600 thro' the gate afford the outlay, manpower and maintenance required The initial cost is of course the main concern but for the maintenance costs, surely this would be covered by the costs saved by not having to postpone a meeting in those cases when it rains prior to the meeting but where it have stopped in time for the meeting but still causes the meeting to be off due to a waterlogged track. I also think the use of track covers would increase attends due to two factors: 1. In the cases where the rain stops prior to the start of the meeting, fans would know that the track have been covered and that the meeting will go ahead despite that it have rained during the day. This would means that fans can travel to a meeting without risking it to be off when they arrive. 2. You would minimize the time needed for pre-meeting track grading. This means that fans doesn't have to wait for an hour for the meeting to begin. So in the end, I think even if the initial acquiring cost would be high, the track covers would create a positive return on investment in a long time term. The only track that I know of who both have and use track covers are Elit Vetlanda in the Swedish Elitserien. Of course, sometimes meetings would still be postponed due to rain since track covers won't make it stop raining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 They MUST have. Check out the Social Media thread...according to one person there, the BSPA get a "seven figure sum" off SkySports for the TV rights...that's over a million squid. Which is a lot of money. So why can't a once and for all investment be made and be done with it? Of course, if the information about the "seven figure sum" is incorrect, then it could well explain why there is no money in the pot. Didn't the BSPA 'sell their soul to the devil'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The initial cost is of course the main concern but for the maintenance costs, surely this would be covered by the costs saved by not having to postpone a meeting in those cases when it rains prior to the meeting but where it have stopped in time for the meeting but still causes the meeting to be off due to a waterlogged track. I also think the use of track covers would increase attends due to two factors: 1. In the cases where the rain stops prior to the start of the meeting, fans would know that the track have been covered and that the meeting will go ahead despite that it have rained during the day. This would means that fans can travel to a meeting without risking it to be off when they arrive. 2. You would minimize the time needed for pre-meeting track grading. This means that fans doesn't have to wait for an hour for the meeting to begin. So in the end, I think even if the initial acquiring cost would be high, the track covers would create a positive return on investment in a long time term. The only track that I know of who both have and use track covers are Elit Vetlanda in the Swedish Elitserien. Of course, sometimes meetings would still be postponed due to rain since track covers won't make it stop raining. They have been used at Berwick and several other places. If they don't fit properly they create uneven conditions. The track would still need grading and watering after they were removed. I read that attempts to water before the covers are applied causes sweating. Doubtless all these problems could be overcome but if it was that straight forward and affordable it would already be in go as a string of rain-offs can pretty much kill off a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I don't get all this talk about 'cost' being an issue - it could be done for next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, especially when you put the cost of track covers against the price of having a meeting called off, especially once it has already started or just before. I've made many posts on this subject and still haven't seen one good reason for it not to happen. Sheeting can be bought for minimal costing, which then gets rolled up and hooked either on top or ideally behind the fence. When it starts to rain the sheets get rolled out so they are at tension and come a good few feet inside the centre green and pegged to the floor. Your sheet is now on an angle and naturally rain water will run into the middle of the centre green and not on the track. When the rain stops, the pegs get pulled out, the sheets get rolled up and we go back racing.... What's the issue? Track staff nowadays just wave a red flag once in a while so will be on hand to carry out that duty during/leading upto a meeting. I cannot believe any clubs havn't adopted this idea, when every club year on year moans about the cost of having a rain off. Admittedly if you get persistent rain during an evening there is nothing that can be done to help. They have been used at Berwick and several other places. If they don't fit properly they create uneven conditions. The track would still need grading and watering after they were removed. I read that attempts to water before the covers are applied causes sweating. Doubtless all these problems could be overcome but if it was that straight forward and affordable it would already be in go as a string of rain-offs can pretty much kill off a season. Surely a bit of 'sweating' is better than a waterlogged track though? Edited January 19, 2015 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't get all this talk about 'cost' being an issue - it could be done for next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, especially when you put the cost of track covers against the price of having a meeting called off, especially once it has already started or just before. I've made many posts on this subject and still haven't seen one good reason for it not to happen. Sheeting can be bought for minimal costing, which then gets rolled up and hooked either on top or ideally behind the fence. When it starts to rain the sheets get rolled out so they are at tension and come a good few feet inside the centre green and pegged to the floor. Your sheet is now on an angle and naturally rain water will run into the middle of the centre green and not on the track. When the rain stops, the pegs get pulled out, the sheets get rolled up and we go back racing.... What's the issue? Track staff nowadays just wave a red flag once in a while so will be on hand to carry out that duty during/leading upto a meeting. I cannot believe any clubs havn't adopted this idea, when every club year on year moans about the cost of having a rain off. Admittedly if you get persistent rain during an evening there is nothing that can be done to help. Surely a bit of 'sweating' is better than a waterlogged track though? Len Silver is said to have built the best safety fence in the country (pre-air fence) and has a long knowledge of everything to do with Speedway, why not write and ask him why he doesn't use track covers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't get all this talk about 'cost' being an issue - it could be done for next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, especially when you put the cost of track covers against the price of having a meeting called off, especially once it has already started or just before. I've made many posts on this subject and still haven't seen one good reason for it not to happen. Sheeting can be bought for minimal costing, which then gets rolled up and hooked either on top or ideally behind the fence. When it starts to rain the sheets get rolled out so they are at tension and come a good few feet inside the centre green and pegged to the floor. Your sheet is now on an angle and naturally rain water will run into the middle of the centre green and not on the track. When the rain stops, the pegs get pulled out, the sheets get rolled up and we go back racing.... What's the issue? Track staff nowadays just wave a red flag once in a while so will be on hand to carry out that duty during/leading upto a meeting. I cannot believe any clubs havn't adopted this idea, when every club year on year moans about the cost of having a rain off. Admittedly if you get persistent rain during an evening there is nothing that can be done to help. Think about how big an area a speedway track covers and so just how much sheeting you need. Let go low end estimate, a 300 metre track that is 8 metres wide. I've not allowed for the fact that going around the outside of the bend it'll go further so you can probably add on a good 140ish metres. So now you need 440 metres of sheet at 8 metre wide to cover a 300m track. Thats about £5-6000 based on a quick internet search. I don't get all this fancy cut to size with velcro rubbish that Swindon used. Just have a load of 30-50m sections and over lap them on the bends! Over laps means less chance of water seeping under too. The issue is, try folding up 3500-4000m2 It takes up loads of room! And time! Anyone who has ever tried to fold up a 6x4 metre sheet will tell you that. Personally if I was a promoter, I might be prone to give it a try. If it all fails at least I have a load of tarpaulin to sell on ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Think about how big an area a speedway track covers and so just how much sheeting you need. Let go low end estimate, a 300 metre track that is 8 metres wide. I've not allowed for the fact that going around the outside of the bend it'll go further so you can probably add on a good 140ish metres. So now you need 440 metres of sheet at 8 metre wide to cover a 300m track. Thats about £5-6000 based on a quick internet search. I don't get all this fancy cut to size with velcro rubbish that Swindon used. Just have a load of 30-50m sections and over lap them on the bends! Over laps means less chance of water seeping under too. The issue is, try folding up 3500-4000m2 It takes up loads of room! And time! Anyone who has ever tried to fold up a 6x4 metre sheet will tell you that. Personally if I was a promoter, I might be prone to give it a try. If it all fails at least I have a load of tarpaulin to sell on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heavy-duty-tarpaulin-waterproof-camping-ground-sheet-cover-GREAT-VALUE-/221462463002?pt=UK_SportingGoods_Camping_Accessories&var=&hash=item339031021a I literally just ebayed 'tarpaulin' and this was the first result - going by your calculations I make that a rough total cost of £2068... bit of a difference to the original figure. That's with doing 2 minutes research! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I've made many posts on this subject and still haven't seen one good reason for it not to happen. Sheeting can be bought for minimal costing, which then gets rolled up and hooked either on top or ideally behind the fence. When it starts to rain the sheets get rolled out so they are at tension and come a good few feet inside the centre green and pegged to the floor. Your sheet is now on an angle and naturally rain water will run into the middle of the centre green and not on the track. When the rain stops, the pegs get pulled out, the sheets get rolled up and we go back racing.... What's the issue? Track staff nowadays just wave a red flag once in a while so will be on hand to carry out that duty during/leading upto a meeting. You in the 'Scouts'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Didn't the BSPA 'sell their soul to the devil'? Whether they did or didn't is besides the point...what matters is do they have the cash or not. If they do then the argument about them not being able to afford it goes out of the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Think about how big an area a speedway track covers and so just how much sheeting you need. Let go low end estimate, a 300 metre track that is 8 metres wide. I've not allowed for the fact that going around the outside of the bend it'll go further so you can probably add on a good 140ish metres. So now you need 440 metres of sheet at 8 metre wide to cover a 300m track. Thats about £5-6000 based on a quick internet search. I don't get all this fancy cut to size with velcro rubbish that Swindon used. Just have a load of 30-50m sections and over lap them on the bends! Over laps means less chance of water seeping under too. The issue is, try folding up 3500-4000m2 It takes up loads of room! And time! Anyone who has ever tried to fold up a 6x4 metre sheet will tell you that. Personally if I was a promoter, I might be prone to give it a try. If it all fails at least I have a load of tarpaulin to sell on ebay And try this in even a light breeze 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 And try this in even a light breeze And factor in the storage for it, and also the fact that it will only be good for about 4 meetings. I suppose the extra track labour will just appear every week to put it down and pick it up, that is if they are not already working on the track, putting sheets on the dog track, and the million and one jobs that fans don't see or know about but have to be done to get a meeting on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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