Elite League In-meeting Remedial Track Work.. What Do The Riders Really Want/not Want?

[Sir Jasper]

This may be a silly question but I havent researched at all.

 

With the prospect of fracking for shale gas will this open up any new shale supplies??

 

That was my first thought also.

 

A knowledgable trackman is worth their weight in gold, but like others have said its very subjective, eg Colin Meredith is obviously very knowledgable about tracks but for me his tracks always seem to be very slick, I preferred the track at Brandon when it was done by FTM as it seemed to have some dirt on it and also produced very fast times, and also after he was replaced by Terry something or other.

 

I think it also helps if a trackman has extensive knowledge of a circuit, eg if the Brandon track is in need of water late afternoon, there is a danger that it might not dry out in time if the Sun dips behind the tree's over the 3rd and 4th bend, this has been an issue when Sky are in town. Last season at Brandon showed perfectly what damage can be done by a bad trackman or an inexperienced one. Who was responsible for the track later in the year and who is doing it this year?

[Gemini]

 

That was my first thought also.

 

A knowledgable trackman is worth their weight in gold, but like others have said its very subjective, eg Colin Meredith is obviously very knowledgable about tracks but for me his tracks always seem to be very slick, I preferred the track at Brandon when it was done by FTM as it seemed to have some dirt on it and also produced very fast times, and also after he was replaced by Terry something or other.

 

 

I've commented about that in the past but had a 'DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?' telling off at Leicester so I'm saying nothing now.

 

 

I think it also helps if a trackman has extensive knowledge of a circuit, eg if the Brandon track is in need of water late afternoon, there is a danger that it might not dry out in time if the Sun dips behind the tree's over the 3rd and 4th bend, this has been an issue when Sky are in town. Last season at Brandon showed perfectly what damage can be done by a bad trackman or an inexperienced one. Who was responsible for the track later in the year and who is doing it this year?

 

I know it was awful early on in the season with that inexperienced Pole doing it, but there were times later on that it was equally as diabolical - in particular the National League Fours and another National League match. I don't keep programmes any more so can't check but I think it was the Storm v Cradley. I thought Colin Pratt took over after the Pole left but he obviously won't be involved this season now he is with Swindon.

[The White Knight]

I thought Glyn Taylor prepared a tremendous Track at Redcar when it first opened.

[Sir Jasper]

 

That was my first thought also.

 

A knowledgable trackman is worth their weight in gold, but like others have said its very subjective, eg Colin Meredith is obviously very knowledgable about tracks but for me his tracks always seem to be very slick, I preferred the track at Brandon when it was done by FTM as it seemed to have some dirt on it and also produced very fast times, and also after he was replaced by Terry something or other.

 

I think it also helps if a trackman has extensive knowledge of a circuit, eg if the Brandon track is in need of water late afternoon, there is a danger that it might not dry out in time if the Sun dips behind the tree's over the 3rd and 4th bend, this has been an issue when Sky are in town. Last season at Brandon showed perfectly what damage can be done by a bad trackman or an inexperienced one. Who was responsible for the track later in the year and who is doing it this year?

Woo hoo Terry is back at Brandon.

[Aces51]

I am one who had been critical of Colin Meredith blaming him for the poor racing and track problems after he relaid the Belle Vue track in 2005. Belle Vue tried a number of different curators after Colin left but none seemed able to create a consistently good racing circuit.

 

However, since Colin returned he had done a brilliant job. The track is now consistently good and the racing better than at any time since the early 90's.

[Gemini]

That's good to know. Nice chap is Colin, although the feeling isn't mutual.

[The White Knight]

That's good to know. Nice chap is Colin, although the feeling isn't mutual.

I thought everyone loved you Gemini. You love Dogs so, to me, that makes you lovable. :)

[T.N.T.]

The race surface can change from night to night and with most tracks now the surface is on concrete and hard pressed material. I will say though that I feel more worked could easily be done on the starting gates as ruts can make it hard in later heats to get a decent position.

 

Along the kickboards, especially entering the bend there is always loads of lose dirt there and by constantly refilling these ruts and pressed down every four heats by the tractor or every heat with a waker plate the starting area could be a much more level playing field instead of a plughed field.

[Shale Searcher]

If a rut gets filled in by human or tractor, a rider choosing that rut immediately kicks all the dirt out! I don't think the modern day cat litter used on most tracks now compresses/bonds to the base or sides of ruts. Also, the huge amounts of dirt that builds up on the fence going in to turn one and three is left there, as if that gets dragged onto the racing line these days it like racing on marbles, and riders don't want it / or can't handle it..

if you drat it out mid track it also blocks up the grader, gets dumped on the back straight, and then takes an age for us track staff to disperse it (hence a delay) before racing can resume... Rock/hard place really springs to mind!!!

[E I Addio]

If a rut gets filled in by human or tractor, a rider choosing that rut immediately kicks all the dirt out! I don't think the modern day cat litter used on most tracks now compresses/bonds to the base or sides of ruts. Also, the huge amounts of dirt that builds up on the fence going in to turn one and three is left there, as if that gets dragged onto the racing line these days it like racing on marbles, and riders don't want it / or can't handle it..

if you drat it out mid track it also blocks up the grader, gets dumped on the back straight, and then takes an age for us track staff to disperse it (hence a delay) before racing can resume... Rock/hard place really springs to mind!!!

 

 

Nor entirely correct but it does highlight a problem with tracks that no longer have rakers. Modern machinery does churn up the tracks much more that in the "golden olden days" and the track staff can't be on to every single rut that occurs but a good tack curator or raker will not always fill the rut but will often try to widen it. For example if a rut starts off roughly the size of a tyre width it can be dangerous if a riders back wheel gets in it and picks up grip but a good track raker , especially under the direction of the track curator can chip away at the edges of the rut so that instead of being a tyre width it will be a few inches wider with sloping sides that wont cause the back wheel to suddenly pick up grip, although there will always be a bit of a bump but far less dangerous. If there are serious holes they need time and sometimes money to repair between meetings rather than between races . Its pretty much an open secret now that Matt Ford didn't want the holes at Poole repaired last year because the home riders knew where the holes were and the visitors didn't, but having said that, its in the nature of British weather that no track man can prepare a perfect track every week.

 

 

As to the comment about dirt building up round the fence going into bends one and three, you don't want much dirt on the racing line there for the simple reason that that is where the riders are sliding the bikes into the bend, and that has always been the case. Shale shouldn't be clogging up the grader, if it does its usually because the track is too wet. or because the wrong type of grader is used for track conditions.

 

The root of a lot of these problems IMO is lack of track rakers, and or lack of training of track rakers or lack of communication between track curator and track rakers, or sometimes its because the track curator doesn't get to spend enough time on the track maybe because there is dog racing or something going on or because the promotion will not or cannot afford to pay him more than the bare minimum of time on the track.

[Shale Searcher]

 

 

Nor entirely correct but it does highlight a problem with tracks that no longer have rakers. Modern machinery does churn up the tracks much more that in the "golden olden days" and the track staff can't be on to every single rut that occurs but a good tack curator or raker will not always fill the rut but will often try to widen it. For example if a rut starts off roughly the size of a tyre width it can be dangerous if a riders back wheel gets in it and picks up grip but a good track raker , especially under the direction of the track curator can chip away at the edges of the rut so that instead of being a tyre width it will be a few inches wider with sloping sides that wont cause the back wheel to suddenly pick up grip, although there will always be a bit of a bump but far less dangerous. If there are serious holes they need time and sometimes money to repair between meetings rather than between races . Its pretty much an open secret now that Matt Ford didn't want the holes at Poole repaired last year because the home riders knew where the holes were and the visitors didn't, but having said that, its in the nature of British weather that no track man can prepare a perfect track every week.

 

 

As to the comment about dirt building up round the fence going into bends one and three, you don't want much dirt on the racing line there for the simple reason that that is where the riders are sliding the bikes into the bend, and that has always been the case. Shale shouldn't be clogging up the grader, if it does its usually because the track is too wet. or because the wrong type of grader is used for track conditions.

 

The root of a lot of these problems IMO is lack of track rakers, and or lack of training of track rakers or lack of communication between track curator and track rakers, or sometimes its because the track curator doesn't get to spend enough time on the track maybe because there is dog racing or something going on or because the promotion will not or cannot afford to pay him more than the bare minimum of time on the track.

I was referring to start gate ruts only, of course ruts elsewhere are left be so the riders can at least see them, and in dire cases widened so they can be "ridden through"

[Tsunami]

I was referring to start gate ruts only, of course ruts elsewhere are left be so the riders can at least see them, and in dire cases widened so they can be "ridden through"

Not forgetting that the wonder wheel also skims off a top layer to bring the dirt into action, and take the small ruts out.

[Shale Searcher]

Correct me if I am wrong please. The wonder wheels in use today, are NOT the real wonder wheels that were originally designed? I am sure I remember vaguely that there were multiple smaller wheels integral to the machine??? And basically, the ones in current use are not true "WONDER WHEELS"??

[jenga]

whats the point of filling in the starting ruts if the riders dig them out at the start... concrete is the answer.. everywhere.. with a bit of axle grease on the corners.

 

no accusations here , just COMmEnTS..

[Shale Searcher]

whats the point of filling in the starting ruts if the riders dig them out at the start... concrete is the answer.. everywhere.. with a bit of axle grease on the corners.

 

no accusations here , just COMmEnTS..

I was making the point known, someone asked why track staff don't infill the ruts on the starting gate so riders don't have to, my reply was aimed at that question and a couple of others similar queries....

[T.N.T.]

whats the point of filling in the starting ruts if the riders dig them out at the start... concrete is the answer.. everywhere.. with a bit of axle grease on the corners.

 

no accusations here , just COMmEnTS..

 

Riders DON'T dig ruts at the start, they are simply looking for the best bit of track to get the grip and if anything they fill in the ruts and stamp down the lose dirt to try and get the best grip when starting.

 

If you ever get to see the track close up during or after a meeting you will see that gate four gets really rutted during the meeting and creates bumps as they go back around each time. This isn't really needed as the ruts can be filled in more often ...... the one problem gate four can often have though is the lack of dirt once they are out of the gate due to the racing line being slick as the meeting goes on.

 

 

Grading the start line more often in my opinion would be a benefit to everyone and make the gates more equal during the meeting.

[Shale Searcher]

 

Riders DON'T dig ruts at the start, they are simply looking for the best bit of track to get the grip and if anything they fill in the ruts and stamp down the lose dirt to try and get the best grip when starting.

 

If you ever get to see the track close up during or after a meeting you will see that gate four gets really rutted during the meeting and creates bumps as they go back around each time. This isn't really needed as the ruts can be filled in more often ...... the one problem gate four can often have though is the lack of dirt once they are out of the gate due to the racing line being slick as the meeting goes on.

 

 

Grading the start line more often in my opinion would be a benefit to everyone and make the gates more equal during the meeting.

 

In the 1970's at old Leicester, the grader attached to the tractor was lifted away from the track as it passed over the start gate, the starting area was never graded, I would imagine this was to leave it alone and not get constantly moaned at and called cheats for preparing the area with an advantage geared to the home team? I used to assist Tony Steele at Leicester at the starting gate when he first got involved in the early eighties, he took over from the Legend that was Todd Aitkin as our starting marshal... If anyone knows if the reason the start gate area was left alone that's different to my explanation, please feel free to post your info!!

[Vince]

I think the lack of oil going into the shale these days has made consistency more difficult for trackmen.

[The White Knight]

I think the lack of oil going into the shale these days has made consistency more difficult for trackmen.

I think you are right. Bloody Health & Safety.

[SteveLyric2]

I wonder what different riders will request of track prep with the new silencers/set-ups?