The White Knight Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 so leave a hump of dirt just as you leave the start, it was oh so better when riders used to roll back and forth through the tapes hoping they wouldnt break them trying to get the best start back in the good old days, NOT. as has been said by many 2 minutes thats your lot, over, done with, garden if you wish, if you leave the pits late and the clock is ticking , tough your fault. at the end of the day this is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to the british final last year, and as i have said before no rules were actually broken the blame lied totally with the referee and meeting coordinator in NOT putting the 2 minutes on sooner, so aside from twiddling thumbs in the pits Tai made use of his time constructively without a breach of the rules. He did indeed. He also highlighted the Starting and Gardening issue that needs to be attended to by the Authorities. Good for him - I say!!! If this were regulated properly it would improve the Speedway Supporters enjoyment immeasurably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 He did indeed. He also highlighted the Starting and Gardening issue that needs to be attended to by the Authorities. Good for him - I say!!! If this were regulated properly it would improve the Speedway Supporters enjoyment immeasurably. do you think that 'non-brit' rider's should attain a second work permit/visa before they can carry out this procedeuer,,, or do you think it's part of their job anyway ??? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 No, Woffy didn't break any rules, but he created an unfair situation, in that he prepared his starting position prior to the race being called to the tapes. The main problem with that was the Referee wasn't stronger enough to order the track rackers to redo all the starting positions to assure fairness to all riders. It wasn't that the rules were wrong or needed changing, just the referee needed abit of bottle..... None of this should have been necessary, if common sense had prevailed. It's been OK for 50 fifty yrs., why all of a sudden does it need changing ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 No, Woffy didn't break any rules, but he created an unfair situation, in that he prepared his starting position prior to the race being called to the tapes. The main problem with that was the Referee wasn't stronger enough to order the track rackers to redo all the starting positions to assure fairness to all riders. It wasn't that the rules were wrong or needed changing, just the referee needed abit of bottle..... None of this should have been necessary, if common sense had prevailed. It's been OK for 50 fifty yrs., why all of a sudden does it need changing ?????? Simply because the Regulations are not being enforced properly by the Authorities. AS NKI says - a Two Minute Clock on the Starting Gate could solve a lot of Starting problems - BUT - the Referees have to be STRONG, FAIR and most of all CONSISTENT!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 What's now then you likely get someone like Nicolai Klindt come out after every race and mess about with his starting gate in the next couple of heats - what's the referee going to do then, exclude him 2 heats in advance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Lets see what sort of delays we get from unsatisfactory starts through riders snaking out of the gate from unsuitable/unprepared ruts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 No, Woffy didn't break any rules, but he created an unfair situation, in that he prepared his starting position prior to the race being called to the tapes. The main problem with that was the Referee wasn't stronger enough to order the track rackers to redo all the starting positions to assure fairness to all riders. It wasn't that the rules were wrong or needed changing, just the referee needed abit of bottle..... None of this should have been necessary, if common sense had prevailed. It's been OK for 50 fifty yrs., why all of a sudden does it need changing ?????? Why did he create an unfair situation? Other riders had the choice to do the same thing. You could just as easily say its unfair that one rider spends longer in the pits sorting his bike out, while another is sat on his bike on the track.. As for the the 'unfair situation'.. let's not forget Woffinden made the start in every running of the race EXCEPT the final one after all his 'gardening'. So hardly 'unfair'. Unless you're saying it was unfair on himself? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 No, Woffy didn't break any rules, but he created an unfair situation, in that he prepared his starting position prior to the race being called to the tapes. The main problem with that was the Referee wasn't stronger enough to order the track rackers to redo all the starting positions to assure fairness to all riders. It wasn't that the rules were wrong or needed changing, just the referee needed abit of bottle..... None of this should have been necessary, if common sense had prevailed. It's been OK for 50 fifty yrs., why all of a sudden does it need changing ?????? Can't agree with you - Woffy did nothing wrong so what could the referee do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Can't agree with you - Woffy did nothing wrong so what could the referee do? The regulations state: 9.4.2 The track at the Starting Gate area must be must be uniformly graded Woffinden playing about with a spade clearly meant the gates were not "uniformly graded" and therefore, as said, the referee should have ordered them to be re-graded by the track staff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why did he create an unfair situation? Other riders had the choice to do the same thing. You could just as easily say its unfair that one rider spends longer in the pits sorting his bike out, while another is sat on his bike on the track.. As for the the 'unfair situation'.. let's not forget Woffinden made the start in every running of the race EXCEPT the final one after all his 'gardening'. So hardly 'unfair'. Unless you're saying it was unfair on himself? How Woffy started the race is irrelevant. You obviously think it is right and proper, that a rider is allowed to use instruments (i.e.. shovel...) and walk around and collect dirt from the side of the track to deposit it in his starting position as being acceptable. fair enough ..... Why stop there??? why not allow a whacker plate to vibrate it down for a nice solid base to start from...... Can't agree with you - Woffy did nothing wrong so what could the referee do? The ref could have had some balls and called for the starting are to be reraked to create a fair start to all riders...... His job is to treat all riders fairly...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The regulations state: 9.4.2 The track at the Starting Gate area must be must be uniformly graded Woffinden playing about with a spade clearly meant the gates were not "uniformly graded" and therefore, as said, the referee should have ordered them to be re-graded by the track staff. They were uniformly graded and then Woffy decided to do some gardening (as all riders have done to an extent without the use of a spade). However, he broke no rules - if he had he would have been excluded. If the referee thought it was unfair the he could have asked for a track re-grading.. And now we have a stupid "no gardening" rule which further makes British speedway a joke and a laughing stock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewer Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 But its not a "no gardening" rule, its a "no gardening if you get off your bike rule". As has been said by many and the riders, an adhered to 2 min rule is all that is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The regulations state: 9.4.2 The track at the Starting Gate area must be must be uniformly graded Woffinden playing about with a spade clearly meant the gates were not "uniformly graded" and therefore, as said, the referee should have ordered them to be re-graded by the track staff. He wasn't grading it. How Woffy started the race is irrelevant. You obviously think it is right and proper, that a rider is allowed to use instruments (i.e.. shovel...) and walk around and collect dirt from the side of the track to deposit it in his starting position as being acceptable. fair enough ..... Why stop there??? why not allow a whacker plate to vibrate it down for a nice solid base to start from...... The ref could have had some balls and called for the starting are to be reraked to create a fair start to all riders...... His job is to treat all riders fairly...... It's clear to me you don't consider entertainment part of sport. From your comments on the Hancock thread having a pop at people who say they find him a dull rider to watch.... newsflash.. he is.. he'd admit it himself. He's a great rider, but he is a fairly dull and safe one as speedway riders go. In this case Woffy was simply providing some entertainment to the crowd. Clearly you would rather they stand there for 15 mins with nothing happening... He also provided entertainment to the viewers at home. He gained zero advantage from it, so your rants have absolutely no relevance. The sport needs MORE of this kind of thing, not less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) He wasn't grading it. It's clear to me you don't consider entertainment part of sport. From your comments on the Hancock thread having a pop at people who say they find him a dull rider to watch.... newsflash.. he is.. he'd admit it himself. He's a great rider, but he is a fairly dull and safe one as speedway riders go. In this case Woffy was simply providing some entertainment to the crowd. Clearly you would rather they stand there for 15 mins with nothing happening... He also provided entertainment to the viewers at home. He gained zero advantage from it, so your rants have absolutely no relevance. The sport needs MORE of this kind of thing, not less. If you honestly believe that, then your something else.......... If, as you say, Woffy wanted to entertain the crowd, why didn't he do cart wheels or act the fool in front of his adoring fans, he could have pulled wheelies around the track, if that was just his intentions. If what you say is true, why didn't he work on all the start areas instead of just his own. .... he would have entertained the fans far more by dong that...... I know it really grates with you, to be wrong, and your opinions are set in stone, but this is a ridiculous statement, of the reasons, of what actually happened...... As for me having a 'POP' at people who find Hancock dull is far more reaching than that........ My thoughts are: if you fans think Hancock is BORING our sport has no future at all. Here is a man, a true Champion, who is at the pinnacle of our sport, Has won 3 World Championships and you fans find him boring. If you cant get excited watching an expert at work, what chance has lesser riders have of exciting you with their menial abilities. It appears I am different from most..... I enjoy all forms of Motor Sport, and get so much enjoyment watching, the good and the bad.. As an ex-rider I can go and watch riders practicing all day, I appreciate their skills and their expertise, and also their desire and hard work to achieve something. If I ever found it boring then I would pack it in. And that's the worrying bit..... Watching the best riders, doing their bit, is what it's all about...... So me having a 'POP' at people is not personal thing, its more of a fear that the decline of the sport is so relevant Edited February 10, 2015 by GRW123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) You are making claims Woffinden gained an unfair advantage. The facts are he didn't. The facts are also he didn't delay the meeting at all and was ready to race within the 2 mins. The facts are he wasn't the only rider who came out. The facts are the crowd found it amusing and he played to it. It doesn't grate me to be wrong, because I'm not. In other words, you are bleating about absolutely nothing. As for your comments about Hancock, you continue to misunderstand the point... however one can only draw the conclusion you would be perfectly happy to watch 15 heats of gate and go racing every week, with no incident, thrills or passes. That is perfectly fine, however many prefer to see more. Personally, I'm like you, I enjoy just seeing riders race, even on their own. That doesn't mean I can't understand how other fans would say they found that dull. Edited February 10, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I am with you, GRW123, re Greg Hancock. He is not an Emil, nor a DW, in terms of raw rider excitement BUT he is a thorough professional who has reached the pinnacle of his sport 3 times now and still riding at the top. You only have to relate how many years he has been riding, together with the success he has had, and still having, then relate it to the fact he has had little injury (shame about the incident that was not his fault with NKI) and has a hugh fanbase cause he is a nice fella and you have a true professional in every sense of the word. Like you GRW123 I admire his riding skills even though his riding style is not arms and legs everywhere. Rather similar to Ivan Mauger, though I dont think Mauger was as universally popular. If he does a good gate then it is up to the other three riders to catch and pass. Greg has learned the art of gating and that is'nt an easy art to learn - ask Peter Collins. Edited February 10, 2015 by OveFundinFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I am with you, GRW123, re Greg Hancock. He is not an Emil, nor a DW, in terms of raw rider excitement BUT he is a thorough professional who has reached the pinnacle of his sport 3 times now and still riding at the top. You only have to relate how many years he has been riding, together with the success he has had, and still having, then relate it to the fact he has had little injury (shame about the incident that was not his fault with NKI) and has a hugh fanbase cause he is a nice fella and you have a true professional in every sense of the word. Like you GRW123 I admire his riding skills even though his riding style is not arms and legs everywhere. Rather similar to Ivan Mauger, though I dont think Mauger was as universally popular. If he does a good gate then it is up to the other three riders to catch and pass. Greg has learned the art of gating and that is'nt an easy art to learn - ask Peter Collins. Nobody, anywhere has questioned any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 You are making claims Woffinden gained an unfair advantage. The facts are he didn't. The facts are also he didn't delay the meeting at all and was ready to race within the 2 mins. The facts are he wasn't the only rider who came out. The facts are the crowd found it amusing and he played to it. It doesn't grate me to be wrong, because I'm not. In other words, you are bleating about absolutely nothing. As for your comments about Hancock, you continue to misunderstand the point... however one can only draw the conclusion you would be perfectly happy to watch 15 heats of gate and go racing every week, with no incident, thrills or passes. That is perfectly fine, however many prefer to see more. Personally, I'm like you, I enjoy just seeing riders race, even on their own. That doesn't mean I can't understand how other fans would say they found that dull. As expected, What a wonderful response...... and as per usual you make up yours ( so called) facts as you go along. The relevant ones are: Fact 1 : I have never said Woffy broke any rules..... Fact 2 : I have never said Woffy delayed the start....... Fact 3: I never said Woffy was the only one to do it...... Fact 4: I did say, Woffy's made the whole scenario laughable.......... Fact 5: I also said a strong Ref would have nipped it in the bud........ As far as I'm concerned all the other so-called facts are irrelevant Please forgive me, imposing on your on your parade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thanks for highlighting the foolishness of your comments. So we now have, Woffinden wasn't breaking any rules.. he wasn't delaying the start, which you agree with.. So where's the problem? What exactly is there for the referee to 'nip in the bud' if no rules are being broken? How is Woffinden gaining an unfair advantage (as you claim) if he isn't breaking any rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I've often wondered over the decades why they didn't have a rule to stop riders using spades to take dirt from another gate position and then use it whilst preparing their starting gate. In a lot of respects the rule book is far too sparse and needs padding out to take into account things like this before they happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.