Daniel Smith Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 it is the referee's / Start Marshall's lack of discipline that causes the delays. We at King's Lynn use an electronic 2mins countdown clock on our scoreboard but time after time (home or away rider) the clock gets switched off with 10secs remaining with rider's clearly going over the time allowance yet allowed to continue. Without discipline rider's will take ever inch given. The responsibility 100% is with the officials 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Obviously its not going to waste time if they don't get off their bikes and get themselves excluded , which clearly they won't be. Riders getting of their bikes isn't the problem though it's referees not being more strict regarding the riders not being ready after the 2 minutes has run out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Gardening have no issue but restarts back to tapes and pit gate kept shut the 2mins rule needs tightening up but tape touching should be allowed (sorry I watched s/way in the 70's) and riders should not be pulled for flying starts . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 it is the referee's / Start Marshall's lack of discipline that causes the delays. We at King's Lynn use an electronic 2mins countdown clock on our scoreboard but time after time (home or away rider) the clock gets switched off with 10secs remaining with rider's clearly going over the time allowance yet allowed to continue. Without discipline rider's will take ever inch given. The responsibility 100% is with the officials That is the point. We have all seen start marshals call riders to the tapes three lor four times and the riders still sits there fiddling with his clutch , adjusting his goggles or whatever, and the referee rarely does anything. I remember a few years ago in an SWCqualifier Chris Gay disqualified Matej Zagar for wasting time at the start after previously having given a warning and the meeting ran like clockwork after that. I would suggest that is what needs to be done more frequently If a rider habitually wastes time he gets one warning then next time he goes out of the race. You are right in that riders will take liberties and the new rule is a step in the right direction in that it cuts down the amount of fiddling around a rider can do because there is obviously less that can be done sitting on the bike than by getting off, so I disagree with those who say it is a stupid rule, but it has to be used as part of a general crackdown on time wasting at the start, but as Bwittcher has already said it would be boring if the riders came out and started straight away so you need a little time for the riders to prepare and to build a bit of pre-race tension. It's all a question of getting the balance right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just a question what if rider changes to his second bike at the startline will that be classed as getting off his bike to remount on the second bike. Why would that be a problem, The issue is not him getting off his bike, the new rule states he mustn't get off his bike to do any gardening. If he wanted to swap bikes than no worries.. Why the question ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If there is a starting offence then the riders are not allowed to go back to the pits ..... obviously except the rider that has been excluded !! ..... So where is deemed back to the pits ? At Wolverhampton there is no pit gate as there is a gap off the second turn that riders use to enter and leave the track. This is then leads to a concreted area (road) that runs behind the pits and is out of view of the referee. If a rider leaves the track, he is only guilty by returning to the pits so when does he become excluded. 1 - On leaving the track ? ..... Hard to tell what is and isn't the track really for a small space leading upto the dog track 2 - On entering the concrete road ? ....... where often riders wait during heats next to the ambulance 3 - On reaching the end of the concrete road ? ...... How will the referee know if he can't be seen It is a bit of silly questioning but if the rule is returning TO THE PITS then in either case the rider has not broken the rule and can't therefore be excluded ...... Can he ? If they are not allowed to leave the track say ..... what happens in these scenario's then. A rider touches the tapes and is excluded and returns to the pits where he gets off his bike and say BLAST !! only to be told he will be back in off 15 meters. .... When he returns to the track is he then excluded for leaving the track or put back another 15 meters for delaying the start ? Also what happens if a rider is waiting on the track and his bike breaks down. Is he allowed to run back for his spare bike ? ..... Obviously not then and time will then be wasted awaiting his replacement as he trundles back to the pits shouting BOTHER !! Mad moment over ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If there is a starting offence then the riders are not allowed to go back to the pits ..... obviously except the rider that has been excluded !! ..... So where is deemed back to the pits ? At Wolverhampton there is no pit gate as there is a gap off the second turn that riders use to enter and leave the track. This is then leads to a concreted area (road) that runs behind the pits and is out of view of the referee. If a rider leaves the track, he is only guilty by returning to the pits so when does he become excluded. 1 - On leaving the track ? ..... Hard to tell what is and isn't the track really for a small space leading upto the dog track 2 - On entering the concrete road ? ....... where often riders wait during heats next to the ambulance 3 - On reaching the end of the concrete road ? ...... How will the referee know if he can't be seen It is a bit of silly questioning but if the rule is returning TO THE PITS then in either case the rider has not broken the rule and can't therefore be excluded ...... Can he ? If they are not allowed to leave the track say ..... what happens in these scenario's then. A rider touches the tapes and is excluded and returns to the pits where he gets off his bike and say BLAST !! only to be told he will be back in off 15 meters. .... When he returns to the track is he then excluded for leaving the track or put back another 15 meters for delaying the start ? Also what happens if a rider is waiting on the track and his bike breaks down. Is he allowed to run back for his spare bike ? ..... Obviously not then and time will then be wasted awaiting his replacement as he trundles back to the pits shouting BOTHER !! Mad moment over ...... Since the rule is only at its draft stage it might be a good idea to wait and see its final form, and how it is interpreted before pulling it apart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1944 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I sometimes wonder if all this messing about at the tapes is done on purpose to spin the evening races out. It is also showmanship. If the riders were all ready to come out of the pits on time and went up the the gates without all this messing about the meetings would not last very long.The actual racing time for 15 heats is actually only about 25 minutes and that is very generous. Unless one is an ardant speedway fan, outsiders would not think this was very good value for money, especially if one has the expense of travelling to an event only to find it is rained off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Big annoucement Jim Buttress, Jonathan Moseley and Thane Prince from "The Big Allotment Challenge" are going to judge all aspects of the 2015 startline gardening. Only one gardener can win the heat, and one gardener must leave the heat if he the rider is poor at gardening as determined by the judges. Deep joy in the rutty ho and and at the starty bold with the steel shoey on. Thanks for that Stanley (Unwin). :rofl: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I sometimes wonder if all this messing about at the tapes is done on purpose to spin the evening races out. It is also showmanship. If the riders were all ready to come out of the pits on time and went up the the gates without all this messing about the meetings would not last very long.The actual racing time for 15 heats is actually only about 25 minutes and that is very generous. Unless one is an ardant speedway fan, outsiders would not think this was very good value for money, especially if one has the expense of travelling to an event only to find it is rained off. Starting is probably the most important part of the race for most riders! All the messing about as you put can be crucial to a rider if he wants to make it to the first corner first! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 How about this The White Knight. Lets have a RSM as the startline official that would soon put them in line. Just for you The White Knight. Courtsey of BSM Williams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y3TU6T0n34 My old man as just told me a story about the time he was doing his national service. It goes something like this. Whilst having a stop over in Germany on the way to Egypt and then on to Korea, the Army company he was in were having parade drills inside an aircraft hangar taken by the RSM. The parade was a bit like the Trooping the Colour on Horse Guards parade, soldiers of every rank parading on all sides of the hangar. The RSM barked out the order to the company to stand to attention then what a few of the soldiers thought he said to slope arms and a few what thought they heard ground arms. The reason for all the confusion was the echo in the hangar. Now was the RSM best pleased you've guessed it not at all he had the whole company then marching at double time for 10 minutes barking out orders to keep their rifles still against their shoulders whilst doing this square bashing. Rifles were bobbing up and down all over the place. Sorry to digress, a bit like one of Ronnie Corbetts monologues. I was a Sergeant Instructor in the Army Cadet Force - Drill was my speciality............................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I was a Sergeant Instructor in the Army Cadet Force - Drill was my speciality............................................ Black and Decker or Wolf ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Black and Decker or Wolf ? HaHa!!! :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytsejam Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I sometimes wonder if all this messing about at the tapes is done on purpose to spin the evening races out. It is also showmanship. If the riders were all ready to come out of the pits on time and went up the the gates without all this messing about the meetings would not last very long.The actual racing time for 15 heats is actually only about 25 minutes and that is very generous. Unless one is an ardant speedway fan, outsiders would not think this was very good value for money, especially if one has the expense of travelling to an event only to find it is rained off. Spot on although it ain't really the messing about at the tapes that is the main culprit for this. Said that for ages now. People aren't going to pay the expensive entrance fees if a meeting starts at 7.30pm and is over by 8pm!! Also think of all the revenue from the bars, snacks, burger vans etc that will be lost if people were only there for 30 mins or so!!....Its OBVIOUS to anyone with at least half a brain cell that the meetings are dragged out on purpose for longer than really necessary purely because of financial reasons. Edited January 27, 2015 by ytsejam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Spot on although it ain't really the messing about at the tapes that is the main culprit for this. Said that for ages now. People aren't going to pay the expensive entrance fees if a meeting starts at 7.30pm and is over by 8pm!! Also think of all the revenue from the bars, snacks, burger bars etc that will be lost if people were only there for 30 mins or so!!....Its OBVIOUS to anyone with at least half a brain cell that the meetings are dragged out on purpose for longer than really necessary purely because of financial reasons. You may well be right. But - if people are kept hanging around too long so they can be bled dry - surely they are going to think s*d this - I'm not coming back here. Fifteen minutes of Racing in TWO AND A HALF HOURS is just taking the p*ss. Sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Spot on although it ain't really the messing about at the tapes that is the main culprit for this. Said that for ages now. People aren't going to pay the expensive entrance fees if a meeting starts at 7.30pm and is over by 8pm!! Also think of all the revenue from the bars, snacks, burger vans etc that will be lost if people were only there for 30 mins or so!!....Its OBVIOUS to anyone with at least half a brain cell that the meetings are dragged out on purpose for longer than really necessary purely because of financial reasons. I'm certain you would get more people attending if a meeting took 90 minutes rather than 120-150 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don'the want meetings rushed through unless there is something after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don'the want meetings rushed through unless there is something after. You mean like a Second Half. :shock: :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Good. Sky meetings should be all done and dusted within 1.5 hours!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 You mean like a Second Half. :shock: :approve: We often have MDL as a second half at Lynn. I think 90 minutes from tapes up of heat one to chequered flag of heat fifteen is about right if there is a second half for people to stay and watch if they wish. Meetings are dragged out to increase bar takings and while that is fine on a summers evening it's not fair on people if its cold. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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