Bspa Meeting With Ukv&i?

[XTC38L]

Id be more worried about guys like atkin, mason and all the other riders that are 30yrs plus in the naitional league taking spots from the riders it was created for.

[Tsunami]

Adam Ellis. He could do Campton job. Average is 0.01 higher too so is the same standard of rider. Bunyan has an identical average (4.66), Joe Jacobs only half a point lower. Ben Wilson 0.2 higher.

 

So thats 4 rider I have just used to replace one Aussie.

We are looking for 22 not 1. The reason why we have D/U and D/D is there is a shortage of British riders, hence the vast efforts that is going on at youth level to solve the problem. Although there will be the odd exception, if a Brit was good enough, and didn't have any baggage, he would get a team place generally. Full employment of ALL British riders is not practical, because employers would not want to sign certain riders for very good and obvious reasons. Adam is, I agree, a bit unlucky this year, but when the season starts I am sure he will get a place, father permitting of course.

[Najjer]

We are looking for 22 not 1. The reason why we have D/U and D/D is there is a shortage of British riders, hence the vast efforts that is going on at youth level to solve the problem. Although there will be the odd exception, if a Brit was good enough, and didn't have any baggage, he would get a team place generally. Full employment of ALL British riders is not practical, because employers would not want to sign certain riders for very good and obvious reasons. Adam is, I agree, a bit unlucky this year, but when the season starts I am sure he will get a place, father permitting of course.

 

Alot of the Aussies are good enough to be here, and deserve a team place on merit - people like Campton for example, don't.

[Tsunami]

 

Alot of the Aussies are good enough to be here, and deserve a team place on merit - people like Campton for example, don't.

I can agree with that, but if we don't have a decent Brit to replace him, Promotions are then going to employ under achievers like Campton. I have seen Campton ride regularly, and in some races can be very good. Sometimes it can be worthwhile to continue with him for a period of time, in case he suddenly clicks. As I said, if he is very bad why would a promotion sign him if a cheaper Brit wanted the ride.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Tsunami

[thebaron]

Some of the clubs might belong to UKIP or be Freemasons, you're right let's hang anybody we want to blame

On that point what do your reckon the political landscape of speedway actually is; its authority; promoters, riders and supporters. What would speedway vote if it could vote in May. My educated guess is that speedway would vote UKIP or Conservative. No chance Liberal, not an earthly for Green, may be an odd left leaner (to be expected in this game) but not enough for a Liebore majority, not enough Scottish Nastis in it.

 

So for me defo Speedway will vote Conservative or UKIP at the election.

[The White Knight]

On that point what do your reckon the political landscape of speedway actually is; its authority; promoters, riders and supporters. What would speedway vote if it could vote in May. My educated guess is that speedway would vote UKIP or Conservative. No chance Liberal, not an earthly for Green, may be an odd left leaner (to be expected in this game) but not enough for a Liebore majority, not enough Scottish Nastis in it.

 

So for me defo Speedway will vote Conservative or UKIP at the election.

Naughty. :angry:

[refereerick]

We are looking for 22 not 1. The reason why we have D/U and D/D is there is a shortage of British riders, hence the vast efforts that is going on at youth level to solve the problem. Although there will be the odd exception, if a Brit was good enough, and didn't have any baggage, he would get a team place generally. Full employment of ALL British riders is not practical, because employers would not want to sign certain riders for very good and obvious reasons. Adam is, I agree, a bit unlucky this year, but when the season starts I am sure he will get a place, father permitting of course.

The reason there is a shortage of British riders is the way the 3 leagues are sorted out. They should be stepping stones of equal distance from NL to PL to EL but the step from NL to PL is to steep. The Premier league is too strong and the top riders from the NL are struggling to secure a reserve spot in the PL. Now the NL limit has been reduced where are the riders to step up to PL to allow new riders into the NL the next season? Realistically there should be 8-10 riders looking at moving up from the NL each season but you're lucky if its 1 or 2 new riders.

You've even got a top British prospect like Adam Ellis having to drop back to the NL because he can't get a PL place. If its happening to him what hope have we of others moving up? You then get riders who get disheartened being stranded in NL or development leagues who will leave the sport through lack of opportunity to progress.

[SCB]

We are looking for 22 not 1. The reason why we have D/U and D/D is there is a shortage of British riders, hence the vast efforts that is going on at youth level to solve the problem. Although there will be the odd exception, if a Brit was good enough, and didn't have any baggage, he would get a team place generally. Full employment of ALL British riders is not practical, because employers would not want to sign certain riders for very good and obvious reasons. Adam is, I agree, a bit unlucky this year, but when the season starts I am sure he will get a place, father permitting of course.

Actually, my statement was, "It amazes me that Mason Campton is potentially going to get a 3rd season in the UK and has yet to hit a 5 point PL average. There are Brits who could do what he's doing who don't have a job." and I have listed 4 of them. There also Ash Morris and even Chris Mills depending on fitness to make it 5.

 

As for 22 riders, take out the 7 effected EL riders thats 15. Fisher and Josh Grajczonek who I think most would accept are probably of the right level so you're down to 13 riders needing to be replaced. We need someone to replace the likes Segemen, Smith, Manzares, Skidmor, Davies, Douglas and Campton. So basically a few 5-7 pointers. But it's 13 riders basically. So here are a list of 7.... Compon, Wilson, Ellis, Bunyan, Jacobs, Morris, Wright. 7 Brits and amazingly 7 Aussies/Americans with an average under 7.00 - amazing!

[thebaron]

Naughty. :angry:

Apologies I was thinking more of the Crankie couple Salmon and "Jimmy" Sturgeon than Scots generally.

[smod]

 

So for me defo Speedway will vote Conservative or UKIP at the election.

 

But only if BNP aren't standing in their constituency.

[Star Lady]

Some of the clubs might belong to UKIP or be Freemasons, you're right let's hang anybody we want to blame

 

 

So who do you blame then? Or is it just a stitch up. As I read it, had clubs/BSPA abided by the rules, filled in the correct paperwork and ensured it was returned within specified dates there wouldn't be a problem.

 

The BSPA is an umbrella organisation and as such has to take collective responsibility for it's individual clubs actions when they impact on the sport as a whole.

[thebaron]

Actually, my statement was, "It amazes me that Mason Campton is potentially going to get a 3rd season in the UK and has yet to hit a 5 point PL average. There are Brits who could do what he's doing who don't have a job." and I have listed 4 of them. There also Ash Morris and even Chris Mills depending on fitness to make it 5.

 

As for 22 riders, take out the 7 effected EL riders thats 15. Fisher and Josh Grajczonek who I think most would accept are probably of the right level so you're down to 13 riders needing to be replaced. We need someone to replace the likes Segemen, Smith, Manzares, Skidmor, Davies, Douglas and Campton. So basically a few 5-7 pointers. But it's 13 riders basically. So here are a list of 7.... Compon, Wilson, Ellis, Bunyan, Jacobs, Morris, Wright. 7 Brits and amazingly 7 Aussies/Americans with an average under 7.00 - amazing!

You are having a laugh which two out of your list(possibly excepting Bunyan and that's debatable) are anywhere near capable of replacing Ryan Douglas and Alex Davies at Scunthorpe. For Gods (due reverence to Rob) sake do you watch these riders ?.

Edited January 22, 2015 by the outsider

[Tsunami]

Actually, my statement was, "It amazes me that Mason Campton is potentially going to get a 3rd season in the UK and has yet to hit a 5 point PL average. There are Brits who could do what he's doing who don't have a job." and I have listed 4 of them. There also Ash Morris and even Chris Mills depending on fitness to make it 5.

 

As for 22 riders, take out the 7 effected EL riders thats 15. Fisher and Josh Grajczonek who I think most would accept are probably of the right level so you're down to 13 riders needing to be replaced. We need someone to replace the likes Segemen, Smith, Manzares, Skidmor, Davies, Douglas and Campton. So basically a few 5-7 pointers. But it's 13 riders basically. So here are a list of 7.... Compon, Wilson, Ellis, Bunyan, Jacobs, Morris, Wright. 7 Brits and amazingly 7 Aussies/Americans with an average under 7.00 - amazing!

Scraping the barrel with some there. If they were to be signed in normal circumstances, you would be the first to make the same comment. As I have already said, just because a rider wants to ride does't mean promotions would want to sign them due to other issues.

[SCB]

You are having a laugh which two out of your list(possibly excepting Bunyan and that's debatable) are anywhere near capable of replacing Ryan Douglas and Alex Davies at Scunthorpe. For Gods (due reverence to Rob) sake do you watch these riders ?.

Have you read the post? I said that the list of rider I mentioned could replace the sub 7 pointers - the Pooles, Camptons, Proctors, Sedgemens, Manzares of the World.

 

And all you do is lower the points limit by a point if there are not enough riders.

 

But you know what, by all means argue with the government. I guarantee you'll lose, even if you're right.

[Mr Snackette]

As far as I'm aware, the criteria for a Non-EU rider to be granted a Governing Board Endorsement (GBE) which is required in order to receive a visa, was set in 2009. As far as I am aware this has never been changed, and this appears to be the case as it appears under the "INFO" tag on the BSPA website. The criteria is as follows:

 

GOVERNING BODY ENDORSEMENT

 

The Governing Body Endorsement (GBE) requirements for non-European Economic Area (EEA) nationals to be employed in British Speedway in 2009 :

Any Speedway promotion wishing to employ an individual rider to participate in their team will be required to guarantee that, for the previous season, the rider for whom the application is made has fulfilled one of the following criteria.

a) Australia/ New Zealand/ U.S.A.
Finished in the first four in the state Championships

For the following countries which have professional speedway leagues:
Poland, the Czech Republic and Sweden
Achieved an average in excess of 6.00 points while competing in:Poland - Extra League and First Division
Czech Republic - First Division
Sweden - Elite League and First Division

c) For riders who have competed, in the previous season, in any country not listed above, the rider must be the current National Champion to be considered eligible.

Certificate of Sponsorships are normally approved for the speedway season which runs from 15th March to 31st October or for the contract period which can be for up to four years. Upon expiry of the permission granted by a Certificate of Sponsorship, a rider returning to the U.K. for the new season must have achieved the following averages in the previous U.K. season or have qualified by meeting the requirements of a) or or c) above.

Elite League - 4.00 points
Premier League - 7.00 points

No exceptions or extensions will be granted to riders failing to achieve the averages except in the case of injury, medical evidence of which must be supplied.

So how many of those riders awaiting Visas have met this criteria? I fear that there are a number of riders who fall well short of the standard set.

Perhaps the workshops that are being organised, are to provide certain officials / promoters with basic English and comprehension skills!!!!!!!

Edited January 22, 2015 by Mr Snackette

[SCB]

Scraping the barrel with some there. If they were to be signed in normal circumstances, you would be the first to make the same comment. As I have already said, just because a rider wants to ride does't mean promotions would want to sign them due to other issues.

Doesn't matter. If an EU worker is available to do the job, no work permit should be given out. Regardless of how good the work permit rider is or is not. Remember when Eastbourne had to drop Krys Cegielski for Mark Loram in 2003? No work permit for Cegeilski because there was a Brit out of work.

[Local Boy]

 

 

So who do you blame then? Or is it just a stitch up. As I read it, had clubs/BSPA abided by the rules, filled in the correct paperwork and ensured it was returned within specified dates there wouldn't be a problem.

 

The BSPA is an umbrella organisation and as such has to take collective responsibility for it's individual clubs actions when they impact on the sport as a whole.

 

I don't see it that way; the individual clubs are the employer this is their problem. The BSPA is no more than a trade association which happens to provide a structure within which the membership chooses to trade; the membership do not have to do what the BSPA say; there may be consequences if they don't, but there is no collective responsibility each individual promotion does what the devil it likes!

[The SAINT]

surely if it's the guesting/doubling-up situation which is causing the problem then the BSPA make/govern those rules so they are the body who have contravened the imigration laws (as i suspect the assett ruling does too)

[doctor]

In the sixty,s and early seventy,s when england had not enough quaily riders to put a team together they rode under GB flag using aus /kiwi riders. so lets give all top aus riders who have ridden in the uk for 4 or more seasons a british passport or they could apply for swiss passports (imagain switzland winning the world cup) .But like any other none eu sports star they need to be better than the brit they are replacing.

[LagutaRacingFan]

Time to close the border, British people are without jobs.