screm Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Just as I thought - which should technically rule out Smith and Davies then. Rules are rules unfortunately. So going by the criteria riders are now failing, Whethers has been riding illegally since 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with that. Dilger, Konopka, Graversen and many more shouldn't be in reserve in the PL either. But we can't do much about them.We can, or rather the promoters can. They shouldn't be offering utter dross like those mentioned contacts but they've chosen to do so. I accept some are more difficult to replace as there just isn't enough Brits good enough or ready enough in the short term, but I refuse to believe there's not a few British youngsters that couldn't do at least as well if not better, than Konopka or the other 3 point dud at Glasgow. The PL should without question, have British reserves. I hear that could be the case next year, but it should be in place already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) So going by the criteria riders are now failing, Whethers has been riding illegally since 2010. Effectively yes. There is plenty others than can be named too I expect. Any Aussie that came over on a 5.00 for starters. Edited February 4, 2015 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 So going by the criteria riders are now failing, Whethers has been riding illegally since 2010. Which is why it's so amusing that people thought he UKV&I were going to come in, and say, "we're done now. Do as you were before". They have found examples of things being done wrong, things were going to change. It was just a case of how much and how soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'd happily make it a rule that any rider cannot drop less than their assessed average. I'd even be kind to the bugger and say they can drop up to a point in their first season. Then lets see how mant Konopka etc we get over here!THIS. This is what needs to happen. If you come in on a 7 average you should not be allowed to drop below that. A young Brit coming in on a 3 average doesn't get to drop below his assessed average, why should anyone else? I wouldn't allow the drop in average first year. I might, however, allow someone to start dropping average after 10 years of service or something like that... If someone still wants to sign Max Dilger or Rafal Konopka on a 7 they are welcome to do so but they have to take that hit to the team average. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em1500uk Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 As quoted here on the BSPA website: http://www.speedwaygb.co/gbe If it was any season then Matt Wethers would of been okay as im certain he's achieved a 7.00 in the past - just not last season and that's why he's been shown the door it seems. Thank you! So it looks like quite a few may well end up being affected then by reading that. Although in the last sentence it does say that extensions and exceptions can be made for those that have been injured (with medical evidence given) where they fail to meet the required average, but that may well not come into play with any of the Aussies etc that are currently affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 its posted earlier on this thread or the visa thread. criteria havent changed since about 2009 they may have changed as of the date of the workshops/meeting with UKVI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I havent seen his name mentioned,, but Ty Proctor must be doubtful, plus Taylor Poole both of Sheffield, Cam Heeps and Manzares of Ipswich, Christian Henry Newcastle, Ryan Douglas at Scunny, and Kevin Doolan at Berwick, whilst some may be on other visas none of these are elegible under Tier 2 rules = 7+ PL average, The Top 4 in State Championships only apply i believe for 1st season riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Proctor is okay as he achieved over the required 4.00 in the EL last year. Also the page on the BSPA site doesn't say the state championship is only for first years. Therefore Heeps and Douglas are okay too. Edited February 4, 2015 by Najjer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Proctor is okay as he achieved over the required 4.00 in the EL last year. Also the page on the BSPA site doesn't say the state championship is only for first years. Therefore Heeps and Douglas are okay too. Only if he rides in the EL presumably, in that case. He would be ineligible for the PL possibly? Surely the EL figure of 4.00 is too low. You only need to be better than an NL rider to achieve that on the current format. EL figure should be around 5.50 or 6.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Only if he rides in the EL presumably, in that case. He would be ineligible for the PL possibly? Surely the EL figure of 4.00 is too low. You only need to be better than an NL rider to achieve that on the current format. EL figure should be around 5.50 or 6.00. Why only if he rides EL? The Aussie state final is valid for the PL so the UK EL should suffice for the UK PL If you meet the criteria, you meet the criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I take it the average you have to attain is from last season and last season only, or in the case of Kozza Smith and Alex Davies 2013. Going by that Kevin Doolan looks to be in a bit of bother at Berwick, not unless he has British parents, one last thing, does length residency come into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I take it the average you have to attain is from last season and last season only, or in the case of Kozza Smith and Alex Davies 2013. Going by that Kevin Doolan looks to be in a bit of bother at Berwick, not unless he has British parents, one last thing, does length residency come into it. It's last season and last season only. Or once someone gets a work permit they have it for life wouldn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 It's last season and last season only. Or once someone gets a work permit they have it for life wouldn't they? So length of residency, marriage etc doesn't come into it, when it comes to averages, do they include bonus points or are the rolling averages on the BSPA site the ones to go with, for example Kevin Doolan finished last year on a 6-93 rolling average, so he could be in bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Why only if he rides EL? The Aussie state final is valid for the PL so the UK EL should suffice for the UK PL If you meet the criteria, you meet the criteria. I don't know anything about the State Final. It was a response to a comment on averages, which stated he had an verage over 4 in the EL but below 7 in the PL. Based on that, he would presumably be eligible for the EL but not the PL. If he qualifies for a visa via a State final then fair enough, but that's not what I was responding to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't know anything about the State Final. It was a response to a comment on averages, which stated he had an verage over 4 in the EL but below 7 in the PL. Based on that, he would presumably be eligible for the EL but not the PL. If he qualifies for a visa via a State final then fair enough, but that's not what I was responding to. The question is though does he meet the criteria for a work permit? The answer is yes he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't know anything about the State Final. It was a response to a comment on averages, which stated he had an verage over 4 in the EL but below 7 in the PL. Based on that, he would presumably be eligible for the EL but not the PL. If he qualifies for a visa via a State final then fair enough, but that's not what I was responding to. It doesn't matter. The criteria is that a rider has to have finished top 4 in a state final, averages 4 in the EL or 7 in the PL. Has Proctor done any of them things? Yes, he got 4 in the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 It doesn't matter. The criteria is that a rider has to have finished top 4 in a state final, averages 4 in the EL or 7 in the PL. Has Proctor done any of them things? Yes, he got 4 in the EL. In which case, the 4.00 average is way too low as everybody averaged over that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 In which case, the 4.00 average is way too low as everybody averaged over that. We know that. But the criteria is an old one. I don't know what you'd make it though. 5.5 is too low if you've been a second string but 6 is high if you've been a heatleader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I havent seen his name mentioned,, but Ty Proctor must be doubtful, plus Taylor Poole both of Sheffield, Cam Heeps and Manzares of Ipswich, Christian Henry Newcastle, Ryan Douglas at Scunny, and Kevin Doolan at Berwick, whilst some may be on other visas none of these are elegible under Tier 2 rules = 7+ PL average, The Top 4 in State Championships only apply i believe for 1st season riders. Apparently Doolan doesn't need a visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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