A ORLOV Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Its not a case of practicing, it because people are charged £ into the event. Even if it was second halves , the crowd will have been charged to enter the original meeting My local football league club once had a player on trial from a non EU country and wanted to see him action. Normally it was a couple of quid to get into the reserve games . They wanted to see him in a game and to get around the work permit issue, just opened the doors for free and therefore at the time were not contravening any laws . This was a while since and i'm sure this loophole may have been changed. Thanks tyke, can see some logic in that they are seen to be "performing" for the paying public. Under that premise It will stop them riding in any planned testimonials unless they are given clearance to do so as a one off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyke Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thanks tyke, can see some logic in that they are seen to be "performing" for the paying public. Under that premise It will stop them riding in any planned testimonials unless they are given clearance to do so as a one off. No problem. Speedway hierarchy and administrators need to come kicking and screaming into the 21st century and not just on this titled subject. The old 'We've always done it this way ' will not wash in these times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I am pleased to see that the debate has at last moved on from the semantics of whether a league should be described as elite or premier. A mongrel with fleas, is still a mongrel with a fleas, even if someone chooses to describe it as a KC registered pedigree pooch!!!! .........It's another smokescreen to deflect away from the very simple fact that ALL of this has been brought upon by the incompetence of the promoters.......... .......plus the incompetence of the BSPA in failing to observe its OWN RULES!!!! There appears to be an assumption that the UK V&I were prompted into looking more closely at these issues as a result of the government reacting to the growth of UKIP. That may well be the case. However there is some evidence to support the view that this whole issue was "kick started" by two disgruntled riders who found themselves without jobs, and complained to the UK V&I that visas were being granted / applied for, to individuals who did not meet the BSPA's own rules / criteria. Indeed it may be six of one..... however, hopefully after the retraining of those involved has been completed, the authority of monitoring and administrating the situation will go to a more responsible body than the BSPA. It is clear that the BSPA palpably failed in the responsibility to apply sufficient rigour, so perhaps the onus for providing the GREs should fall to a body such as the ACU. Edited January 27, 2015 by Mr Snackette 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 The more snippets of info you pick up the more it seems that Speedway has been lucky to be given the tolerance it has been so far. It certainly isnt a knee jerk reaction. I understand sponsors are graded and those with an exemplary record are effectively just rubber stamped without check except for random dip testing. If they are found in breach their sponsor status is downgraded and further applications will be more likely to be scrutunised. After repeated issues the UKV&I have finally had enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 What a pathetic article in the Spar today - basically whinging about the UK authorities getting tough on enforcing the rules that BSAP basically agreed with them, blaming unclear legislation and UKV&I for not keeping promoters informed. What's unclear about it - it's all perfectly understandable without the need for a lawyer, and it comes down to teams basically turning a blind eye to the rules and hoping they'd get away with it. Why not actually some condemnation of the negligence and rule breaking in the sport? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 What a pathetic article in the Spar today - basically whinging about the UK authorities getting tough on enforcing the rules that BSAP basically agreed with them, blaming unclear legislation and UKV&I for not keeping promoters informed. What's unclear about it - it's all perfectly understandable without the need for a lawyer, and it comes down to teams basically turning a blind eye to the rules and hoping they'd get away with it. Why not actually some condemnation of the negligence and rule breaking in the sport? I particularly liked the quote that the "immigration experts are just as confused as UKVI " !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 What a pathetic article in the Spar today - basically whinging about the UK authorities getting tough on enforcing the rules that BSAP basically agreed with them, blaming unclear legislation and UKV&I for not keeping promoters informed. What's unclear about it - it's all perfectly understandable without the need for a lawyer, and it comes down to teams basically turning a blind eye to the rules and hoping they'd get away with it. Why not actually some condemnation of the negligence and rule breaking in the sport? So confusing and difficult that a few people on this forum have been saying for years there been some piss taking going on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 So confusing and difficult that a few people on this forum have been saying for years there been some piss taking going on! Yes, and now they have been found out, its everyone elses fault except there,s. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Lion Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 What a pathetic article in the Spar today - basically whinging about the UK authorities getting tough on enforcing the rules that BSAP basically agreed with them, blaming unclear legislation and UKV&I for not keeping promoters informed. What's unclear about it - it's all perfectly understandable without the need for a lawyer, and it comes down to teams basically turning a blind eye to the rules and hoping they'd get away with it. Why not actually some condemnation of the negligence and rule breaking in the sport? Those poor promoters who have enough to deal with running their day-to-day businesses. They can't possibly be expected to know how to run their speedway businesses properly too. It's not as if the same rules apply. (I'm being sarcastic) Clearly the problem is so widespread in the sport that the UKV&I have taken the pragmatic view that education is better than a raft of punishments that would irreparably damage the entire sport in the UK. The promoters will have to be fully compliant from now on though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Clearly the problem is so widespread in the sport that the UKV&I have taken the pragmatic view that education is better than a raft of punishments that would irreparably damage the entire sport in the UK. The promoters will have to be fully compliant from now on though. There we go, that one again, "irreparably damage the entire sport in the UK" - really? The EL would lose 4 riders. We've lost more riders than that in the past and coped. If Holder, Batch, Doyle and Fricke are really the glue holding British speedway together than the sport (at EL level) has more issues than a few immigration irregularities! Short term it may mess up Poole, Swindon and Leicester (plenty of 5 point men to replace Fricke at BV though) but it's would not be irreparable and it would not effect the entire sport - just 3 clubs, a little. edit > and Gordon Pairman seems to think Poole could cope. So Leicester and Swindon would be effected - would probably mean singing one of the 6-7 point men out there and being a point or two under the limit initially. Edited January 29, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Plenty of other sports involved too according to Alex - http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/speedway/monarchs-sure-aussie-aces-will-be-granted-work-visas-1-3672706 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500cc Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Plenty of other sports involved too according to Alex - http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/speedway/monarchs-sure-aussie-aces-will-be-granted-work-visas-1-3672706 I think the article is clouding the waters uneccessarily. There are two separate issues. 1. Not following the black and white rules that the BSPA themselves basically created with the Border Agency 2. The recent red tape that has made the process more complex. The BSPA and the clubs shouldn't hide behind point 2, where point 1 is where they have been unacceptably lax. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Plenty of other sports involved too according to Alex - http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/speedway/monarchs-sure-aussie-aces-will-be-granted-work-visas-1-3672706 Yet another load of codswallop, full of excuses, trying to drag other sports into it. The fact is, they KNOWINGLY ignored the rules regarding permits and he has admitted so. That's all that matters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yet another load of codswallop, full of excuses, trying to drag other sports into it. The fact is, they KNOWINGLY ignored the rules regarding permits and he has admitted so. That's all that matters. To be fair, they are trying to promote the sport on their websites and it's best to put as positive a slant on things as they can. I certainly would if it was me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 To be fair, they are trying to promote the sport on their websites and it's best to put as positive a slant on things as they can. I certainly would if it was me. Doing a poor job about it, it simply causes any fan with intelligence (that's a push with speedway ) to lose even more faith. Far better to just come clean, we've cocked up, its being resolved. All the other excuses aren't needed. I most certainly wouldn't be doing that with my business. Looks very poor when you are trying to deflect blame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Doing a poor job about it, it simply causes any fan with intelligence (that's a push with speedway ) to lose even more faith. Far better to just come clean, we've cocked up, its being resolved. All the other excuses aren't needed. I most certainly wouldn't be doing that with my business. Looks very poor when you are trying to deflect blame. It is also infuriating that the guy at the top of the BSPA is quoted extensively in the article and he STILL uses the term UK Border Agency several times. When that ceased to exist in March 2013. You would think that he would have the new name emblazoned on the front of his brain after the last few weeks. It just does not reek of competence, does it? Edited January 29, 2015 by Grand Central 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 What a pathetic article in the Spar today - basically whinging about the UK authorities getting tough on enforcing the rules that BSAP basically agreed with them, blaming unclear legislation and UKV&I for not keeping promoters informed. What's unclear about it - it's all perfectly understandable without the need for a lawyer, and it comes down to teams basically turning a blind eye to the rules and hoping they'd get away with it. Why not actually some condemnation of the negligence and rule breaking in the sport? Been shopping have you? I thought there was a Ban on Advertising on this Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Lion Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 There we go, that one again, "irreparably damage the entire sport in the UK" - really? The EL would lose 4 riders. We've lost more riders than that in the past and coped. If Holder, Batch, Doyle and Fricke are really the glue holding British speedway together than the sport (at EL level) has more issues than a few immigration irregularities! Short term it may mess up Poole, Swindon and Leicester (plenty of 5 point men to replace Fricke at BV though) but it's would not be irreparable and it would not effect the entire sport - just 3 clubs, a little. edit > and Gordon Pairman seems to think Poole could cope. So Leicester and Swindon would be effected - would probably mean singing one of the 6-7 point men out there and being a point or two under the limit initially. Point spectacularly missed. Look at the bigger picture, and think about at the whole point being made rather than selectively jump on one snippet. There could be far more to punishing the miscreants than stopping them having access to a few minor riders who can indeed be easily replaced. The penalties for breaking these laws can be huge. If the V&I had chosen to prosecute rather than educate, fines or worse would have hit the promoters much harder than losing a few riders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Point spectacularly missed. Look at the bigger picture, and think about at the whole point being made rather than selectively jump on one snippet. There could be far more to punishing the miscreants than stopping them having access to a few minor riders who can indeed be easily replaced. The penalties for breaking these laws can be huge. If the V&I had chosen to prosecute rather than educate, fines or worse would have hit the promoters much harder than losing a few riders.ll - I think u are "spectacularly missing" scbs point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 To be fair, they are trying to promote the sport on their websites and it's best to put as positive a slant on things as they can. I certainly would if it was me. Maybe if the sport was followed by thousands of gullible idiots, but can there be anyone involved with speedway other than the promoters and the Star who thinks it's anything less than incompetence? There's not even the usual levels of speedway apologists on this thread - the type who normally come to the defence of certain speedway riders - which surely says something. Probably better for the BSPA to just put out a statement with the facts that visas have been cancelled, under investigation, hoping problems will be resolved before the start of the season etc.. etc.. rather than make yourself look even more foolish. What's almost worse though, is that total unquestioning stance from the journal of record - printing stuff about 'hiccups' and 'discrepancies' rather than providing a hard-hitting editorial about the latest episode of ineptitude in the sport. No doubt they needed to keep some space for those tractor production figures though... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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